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	<title>Comments on: Selling Out &#8211; What is it,&#160;Exactly?</title>
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	<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/</link>
	<description>Independent and alternative music in Scotland - with a shitload of gin.</description>
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		<title>By: the vinyl villain</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>the vinyl villain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-430</guid>
		<description>Ok....so I&#039;m late to the debate cos of holidays.

There&#039;s a really dreadful commercial on US telly at the moment for M&amp;Ms.  But it uses one of my favourite songs of all time - &#039;This Is The Day&#039; by The The.

It didn&#039;t make me want to buy any more sweets.  Nor did it make me love the song any less.

In fact, I hope that Matt Johnston made a killing out of it, and if the outcome is also that few more hundred folk go out and buy some old The The CDs (in shops or on the net), its a double result.

Let&#039;s not be snooty about it.  Most ads use songs which are not well known and they do often result in some half decent stuff getting to a much wider audience. The increased exposure means increased sales which means more financial security for the musicians.

Nowt wrong with that in my book.

Oh, nor is there nowt wrong with Moby&#039;s LP &#039;Play&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok&#8230;.so I&#8217;m late to the debate cos of holidays.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a really dreadful commercial on US telly at the moment for M&amp;Ms.  But it uses one of my favourite songs of all time &#8211; &#8216;This Is The Day&#8217; by The The.</p>
<p>It didn&#8217;t make me want to buy any more sweets.  Nor did it make me love the song any less.</p>
<p>In fact, I hope that Matt Johnston made a killing out of it, and if the outcome is also that few more hundred folk go out and buy some old The The CDs (in shops or on the net), its a double result.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not be snooty about it.  Most ads use songs which are not well known and they do often result in some half decent stuff getting to a much wider audience. The increased exposure means increased sales which means more financial security for the musicians.</p>
<p>Nowt wrong with that in my book.</p>
<p>Oh, nor is there nowt wrong with Moby&#8217;s LP &#8216;Play&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 16:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-422</guid>
		<description>Well exactly - most tend not to involve themselves in these sorts of decisions.  But given advertisers want to burrow deeper and deeper into the actual artistic content, I think groups may have to start taking a more active role.

Some of them (hip-hop artists in the main, I think) are already name-dropping brands on a particularly regular basis and if groups I like start doing that I am going to get very sulky very quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well exactly &#8211; most tend not to involve themselves in these sorts of decisions.  But given advertisers want to burrow deeper and deeper into the actual artistic content, I think groups may have to start taking a more active role.</p>
<p>Some of them (hip-hop artists in the main, I think) are already name-dropping brands on a particularly regular basis and if groups I like start doing that I am going to get very sulky very quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: mjrc</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>mjrc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 12:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-428</guid>
		<description>i so know what you mean about the embedded ads--all that product placement is so disgustingly &lt;i&gt;obvious&lt;/i&gt;. remember back in the day when they took such pains NOT to show a product&#039;s name? all those generic bottles of cola and beer?

i suppose the deeper issue is that the artist cedes control over some/most/all of these decisions almost out of necessity. i mean, how involved can they be with the &quot;business&quot; end of their careers and still be creative artistes, performing their guts out every night? i would imagine once you get so wrapped up in the money aspect that it would lead you down the road to making all kinds of suspect choices (a la the dr. pepper bubble). so they have to leave some of these decisions to their managers, record labels, what have you. and we all know what matters most to them is the bottom line. it&#039;s such a conundrum!

and i know exactly what you mean about the anti-popular reflex. it&#039;s as though something gets lost when a band crosses a certain threshold of popularity, although i&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s something they lose or something i lose, if that makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i so know what you mean about the embedded ads&#8211;all that product placement is so disgustingly <i>obvious</i>. remember back in the day when they took such pains NOT to show a product&#8217;s name? all those generic bottles of cola and beer?</p>
<p>i suppose the deeper issue is that the artist cedes control over some/most/all of these decisions almost out of necessity. i mean, how involved can they be with the &#8220;business&#8221; end of their careers and still be creative artistes, performing their guts out every night? i would imagine once you get so wrapped up in the money aspect that it would lead you down the road to making all kinds of suspect choices (a la the dr. pepper bubble). so they have to leave some of these decisions to their managers, record labels, what have you. and we all know what matters most to them is the bottom line. it&#8217;s such a conundrum!</p>
<p>and i know exactly what you mean about the anti-popular reflex. it&#8217;s as though something gets lost when a band crosses a certain threshold of popularity, although i&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s something they lose or something i lose, if that makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: OldskyChaos</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>OldskyChaos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 11:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-421</guid>
		<description>&#039;anti-popular reflex&#039; I love that! I remember when x-files first came out. I liked it - got called &#039;weird&#039; and then boom EVERYONE likes it. Then I run away as fast as I can. LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;anti-popular reflex&#8217; I love that! I remember when x-files first came out. I liked it &#8211; got called &#8216;weird&#8217; and then boom EVERYONE likes it. Then I run away as fast as I can. LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 11:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-426</guid>
		<description>Right, exactly.  But the depth of the associations is changing, and becoming much deeper.  It&#039;s often no longer a case of letting someone buy your song and plop it on over a naff advert or montage scene in a movie or something like that, which is harmless enough, albeit annoying when it&#039;s a shit product that&#039;s being advertised.

But modern advertising is becoming much more &#039;embedded&#039; if you like, which I think is going to lead to an awful lot of grey areas - look how compromised so many films are by this sort of advertising.  At what point will the band have to step in and start to seriously critically evaluate the stuff they get involved with, instead of just leaving it to a marketing exec at their label?

And, btw, I don&#039;t hate Grey&#039;s Anatomy, Six Feet Under, or even Desperate Housewives (I do loathe The OC, though).  What I get twitchy about is the worship of false idols that can happen when these sorts of programs attain cult status.  It&#039;s an anti-popular reflex I&#039;ve always had and find difficult to control sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, exactly.  But the depth of the associations is changing, and becoming much deeper.  It&#8217;s often no longer a case of letting someone buy your song and plop it on over a naff advert or montage scene in a movie or something like that, which is harmless enough, albeit annoying when it&#8217;s a shit product that&#8217;s being advertised.</p>
<p>But modern advertising is becoming much more &#8216;embedded&#8217; if you like, which I think is going to lead to an awful lot of grey areas &#8211; look how compromised so many films are by this sort of advertising.  At what point will the band have to step in and start to seriously critically evaluate the stuff they get involved with, instead of just leaving it to a marketing exec at their label?</p>
<p>And, btw, I don&#8217;t hate Grey&#8217;s Anatomy, Six Feet Under, or even Desperate Housewives (I do loathe The OC, though).  What I get twitchy about is the worship of false idols that can happen when these sorts of programs attain cult status.  It&#8217;s an anti-popular reflex I&#8217;ve always had and find difficult to control sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: mjrc</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>mjrc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 11:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-429</guid>
		<description>re: mccartney--the only way he could redeem himself for this stunt would be to give all the proceeds to some terribly needy charity. i mean, how much more money does one person need?

re: tv shows like grey&#039;s anatomy--in g.a.&#039;s defense, it was after hearing tegan and sara&#039;s song &quot;where does the good go&quot; that i became obsessed with new music again. one thing led to another and now look at me! : ) my point being that in the case of that show (which i&#039;m not ashamed to say i enjoy), the featuring of music not typically heard on regular radio is a great service to the artists, much to merz&#039;s and oldsky&#039;s points above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: mccartney&#8211;the only way he could redeem himself for this stunt would be to give all the proceeds to some terribly needy charity. i mean, how much more money does one person need?</p>
<p>re: tv shows like grey&#8217;s anatomy&#8211;in g.a.&#8217;s defense, it was after hearing tegan and sara&#8217;s song &#8220;where does the good go&#8221; that i became obsessed with new music again. one thing led to another and now look at me! : ) my point being that in the case of that show (which i&#8217;m not ashamed to say i enjoy), the featuring of music not typically heard on regular radio is a great service to the artists, much to merz&#8217;s and oldsky&#8217;s points above.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 08:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-427</guid>
		<description>How about this one: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Multichannel retailing powerhouse HSN [That&#039;s the Home Shopping Network] today announced that it is teaming with Hear Music to produce a Paul McCartney Listening Party television special to celebrate the upcoming release of Paul McCartney&#039;s latest album, &quot;Memory Almost&quot;...the special 30-minute program will feature cuts from the new CD, lively discussions with McCartney fans and video segments from Paul McCartney as he shares the inspiration behind his latest work.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;

Peddling your wares on the Home Shopping Network is pretty low.  I know he&#039;s facing a thorough fleecing from Hopalong, but surely this can&#039;t be necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this one: <i>&#8220;Multichannel retailing powerhouse HSN [That's the Home Shopping Network] today announced that it is teaming with Hear Music to produce a Paul McCartney Listening Party television special to celebrate the upcoming release of Paul McCartney&#8217;s latest album, &#8220;Memory Almost&#8221;&#8230;the special 30-minute program will feature cuts from the new CD, lively discussions with McCartney fans and video segments from Paul McCartney as he shares the inspiration behind his latest work.&#8221; </i></p>
<p>Peddling your wares on the Home Shopping Network is pretty low.  I know he&#8217;s facing a thorough fleecing from Hopalong, but surely this can&#8217;t be necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 08:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, and Marcy, yes that&#039;s exactly what it means.  For shame, woman!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Marcy, yes that&#8217;s exactly what it means.  For shame, woman!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 08:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-413</guid>
		<description>I agree with both of you guys actually - it was you wasn&#039;t it Merz who linked to that Chinese article on the Elbows forums - and it&#039;s sort of the point I was trying to make.  A lot of the things which may look a little like selling out are often just us having a knee-jerk reaction to having things we care about associated too deeply with things towards which we are a bit ambivalent.  I was just saying that it is only going to become more prevalent and that we should accept it - to an extent.  Madonna and Whatstheirnames in the MTV thingy really have gone too far though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with both of you guys actually &#8211; it was you wasn&#8217;t it Merz who linked to that Chinese article on the Elbows forums &#8211; and it&#8217;s sort of the point I was trying to make.  A lot of the things which may look a little like selling out are often just us having a knee-jerk reaction to having things we care about associated too deeply with things towards which we are a bit ambivalent.  I was just saying that it is only going to become more prevalent and that we should accept it &#8211; to an extent.  Madonna and Whatstheirnames in the MTV thingy really have gone too far though.</p>
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		<title>By: OldskyChaos</title>
		<link>http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>OldskyChaos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 07:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://songbytoad.com/2007/05/29/selling-out-what-is-it-exactly/#comment-414</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right merz, being someone who has been regularly in bands and with bands who have gotten record deals - I know the harshness of the record industry. Going to a different country and finding merchandise you never knew existed nor saw a penny from is very disheartening. The very reason why many choose not to sell out, because they enjoy the music rather than the rest of it, for everyone famous you&#039;ll probably find 100&#039;s who were misused by the industry. Someone close to me got to number 1 and toured and never saw a penny - so he sticks to doing what he loves instead, which is gigging.
But I don&#039;t dis those that need to make money, thats unfortunately what its all about - I say unfortunately because truly it is the record company that makes, not always the artist - and frankly the record company very often &#039;chooses&#039; who will &#039;make it&#039; and who won&#039;t. If I could give the money direct to the artist then I definitely would which is why if I go to a gig (unsigned) I like, I&#039;ll buy a CD direct from the band.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right merz, being someone who has been regularly in bands and with bands who have gotten record deals &#8211; I know the harshness of the record industry. Going to a different country and finding merchandise you never knew existed nor saw a penny from is very disheartening. The very reason why many choose not to sell out, because they enjoy the music rather than the rest of it, for everyone famous you&#8217;ll probably find 100&#8217;s who were misused by the industry. Someone close to me got to number 1 and toured and never saw a penny &#8211; so he sticks to doing what he loves instead, which is gigging.<br />
But I don&#8217;t dis those that need to make money, thats unfortunately what its all about &#8211; I say unfortunately because truly it is the record company that makes, not always the artist &#8211; and frankly the record company very often &#8216;chooses&#8217; who will &#8216;make it&#8217; and who won&#8217;t. If I could give the money direct to the artist then I definitely would which is why if I go to a gig (unsigned) I like, I&#8217;ll buy a CD direct from the band.</p>
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