Song, by Toad

Cool. The tunes are top notch, and that’s the important thing. But you also raise an interesting question about translation and the indeterminacy of language, a problem that strikes me as being particularly acute when it comes to translating songs, where fidelity to the literal text may often lead to an asymmetry with the metric structure of the song. Musical meter and poetic meter have to be in synch or the song loses its lucidity and concision, and I suppose an artist who sings a translation needs to make a judgment about which aspect of the song deserves the more faithful preservation. You can keep the tune or the lyric, but not necessarily both. I imagine that most native English speakers who admire French or German or Spanish songs were attracted first to the melodies and the metric framework, so that’s the aspect of the song they’d most naturally want to preserve in their own translated version, no? Is it possible that McKuen’s translation, although less faithful to Brel’s poetry, is more faithful to his melody than the translation of Professor Arnold Johnston? And perhaps this is why you’ve found it so very difficult to locate the good professor’s version on vinyl. Don’t know about Blau-Shuman, but you speak Frog and Kraut and Limey, dontcha? Which is best?

Interesting post (and interesting follow up by C&B). I ‘m very much looking forward to downloading these songs when I get home (I’ve got a few of these). Thanks Toad.

Wow, that Richard Godwin translation is different than any version I have heard before…pretty great, though he sounds as though he is singing a bit too low for comfort in his vocal register.

We had all the Jacques Brel albums (English and French) in the house when I was growing up, but I must admit I gravitated toward the Blau-Shuman ones because I heard them more often and could understand the lyrics. I speak une petit peu Francais, but not well enough, I’m afraid, to get the wit and wisdom of Brel in the original. Still, his music is incredibly powerful on its own.

This is a GREAT post by the way Matthew.

Have a great weekend.

I’m pretty sure that’s Godwin’s own translation. He’s rather talented, he has a song called Josie that I adore.

‘Next’ is my favourite Brel song, and the reason is that I first saw it performed by Alex Harvey and his (Sensational) band on The Old Grey Whistle Test (BBC TV) in 1973. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F49-HN2BwZI
I was 12 and I’d never before seen a ‘pop’ song performed with such intensity or theatricality. Quite apart from guitarist Zal Cleminson’s sinister clown make up, it was quite a way into it before I realised that there was something subtly wrong with the string players faces. The accentuated tango beat, Harvey’s delivery – near hysterical in places, and a great translation make it still, I think, the best version of this tragic masterpiece I’ve heard.

I was going to make a facetious comment about continuing the undercurrent of snobbery vein, but I couldn’t be arsed.

Anyways, couple of things:

Translation is a very interesting area. In the poetry (& literature as a whole) world (a vicinity to which I have been known to travel) translators of works are on the same pedastal as the originatiors of the work they translate i.e. considered within the same artictic merit & skill. Whereas I agree that the ’skill’ in replicating the sense, the language, the aesthetic, the imagery & artictic integrity of the original tongue is quite a feat, I do have a truck with hanging them on the same peg. I believe they ride the coat tails in very much the same way as ‘tribute’ bands do to the real thing.

Now, before you go all apoplectic on me, & I freely admit there’s no foundation/fact/scientific or otherwise proven argument backing up my position, which is ultimately only an opinion, I do recognise that a lot of tranlation work brings to an English reading audience the works of otherwise anonymous/little known writers from over there in ohynny Foreigner land, & this is ultimatwely a good thing. A great thing, even. But, I can’t bring myself to admire these ‘ghost’ writers because, ultimately, there will always be something (excuse unintended pun) lost in the translation (as alluded to by Mr. Toad & the lyric translation) & an indelible imprint of the translator’s own style into the bargain. Some say this is a good thing, a clever thing, a needed thing i.e. a displaying of the wordsmith talent of said translator, his/her understanding of the complexity of whatever they’re bringing to the table &, therefore, justifying their existence as a notable/required force in the whole process of dicovery of the original talent. I say(again this is a personal opinion) bollocks. If they’re that skilled tell them to write their own stuff & let us judge that on its own terms. A lot of translators (at least contemporary) seem not to have published works of their own doing, or if they do it tends to be on the wrong side of workaday.

‘Course, I’m probably digging a hole here especially as we’d never have been able to read the likes of Dostoyevsky, Homer, Celine, Satre, Hamson, Will Self etc., but how much of what was meant, how much was implied, how much nuance/humour/subtlety/colloquialisation has been lost through a translator’s/publisher’s necessity/politics/ego/angle? We’ll never know, really.

Thoughts?

Anyway, nice post – TWoTH likes this one a lot, being a seriously sickeningly obsessive fan of Walker. Are these covers a gear up ready for next week’s Drunk Covers VI 3hr special? )

On a related topic: a friend of mine – Anthony Reynolds of Jack/Jaqcues infamy, whom I have mentioned in previous comments, has recently completed an autobiography of The Walker Brothers & it’s in final edit mode as I type. rather good it is too, from the draft chapters I’ve run my eyes over. He’s also in the process of writing a Jeff Buckley AB, which is quite dementedly good indeed. If you like either music I’d suggest you keep an eye out for the books.

Incidentally, Anthony & I wen to see The Fratellis last night. When I say ‘went to see’, we spent the first half of the gig in the bar of the theatre next door getting properly munted on bourbon & rum, then hugged the bar of the gig venue for two songs, went outside for a cigarette & promptly stayed there until the chords of the last song. We only went because Anthony knows the session guy on keys & guitars touring with them & he’d put us on the guestlist & gave us back stage passes. The evening took a surreal turn when some pupils of Anthony spotted him in the crowd (he’s currently teaching music theory in an attempt to appear respectable, finally) as we chatted to the sound guy (who we both knew), & we ended up getting them (their full indie pop band members & girlie friends – average age 15) backstage to help us demolish the band’s rider. Strange night. But, as for what I heard, The Fratellis are tight, adored by the young, but are far too loud for small venues (they’re touring tiny places working new songs into the set as there’s a new LP on its way) – which was one of the points we made to the sound guy who, not looking up from his neatly chopped line, said “tell that to the kids”. Yes, I realised, I’m getting old.

Erm, I’ve just come home plastered and there is no way I can respond properly to this until I am a little more sober tomorrow. So haud yer wheesht, as the Scots might say, and I’ll chip in tomorrow morning.

DC, you’ve hit upon a big point. Whenever English speakers (at least in the States) purport to express an opinion on virtually any cultural enterprise or innovation with origins outside the Anglo-American sphere, there is this almost instinctive tendency to call “snobbery” or elitism. I’m glad you couldn’t be arsed. But perhaps this is why English-speaking musicians who appeal primarily to an English-speaking audience are reluctant to sing in French. Nina Simone could do it because she was beloved in France, probably more so than in the States. And what about Samuel Beckett, a native English speaker who wrote his greatest works in French and then translated them himself into English? Which is the best text of Waiting for Godot? The French or the English? Beckett wrote both of them.

As far as the status of translators being viewed as comparable to the authors themselves, that hasn’t really been my experience at all. I can name lots of modern authors, but I’m not sure I can name a single translator of modern literary texts, although perhaps I’m a bad example since I am more than commonly ignorant about such things. But still, it seems to me the only translators who are familiar to the public are those who translate “classical” or “ancient” texts, the actual authors of which are long dead and therefore not all that interesting as celebrities. Also, if you’re translating Homer or Dante or Moliere (or the Bible, which apparently says tons of things in Hebrew and Greek that never got translated into English), you’re part of a long tradition of translators who have had nearly as much cultural influence as the original authors themselves. ‘On First Looking into Chapman’s Homer,’ etc.

Well I do believe that Mrs. Toad an I first bonded over antisocially loud Bob Dylan records and multiple translations of Homer. We had a couple thrust upon us at school to make it sure that we understood clearly the importance of the translator.

I hate to insist on low brow, but honestly the Asterix books are a masterpiece – just look at how faithfully the wit and the puns are carried over. Not many classical authors could claim such faithfulness to the original.

Absolutely, Cf&Bf.

To clarify my position, though, I was more aiming at contemporary poets/translators ratehr than the ‘classics’, which, to be fair, mostly were translated in good faith & for the pure sake of having the texts made available without too much (if any) bias from publishers/political awareness/ego, etc.

I have a good friend, an Argentinian, who is a regarded ‘translator’ of her homeland’s poets & we’ve had many a conversation about this very subject. The thing I’ve always had an issue with, & this is from having access to countless poetry journals, periodicals, magazines, mimeos, etc. for the last 20 or so years, as well as running a writing class for nearly 10, is that ‘contemporary’ translators often use the vehicle of their translated works to gain publication – i.e. their name becomes the focus of the piece rather than the text & original author. My friend is also ‘guilty’ of this & concedes it is an easier step to publication (especially if a geographical area is getting a lot of attention from the literature world, such as Argentina & South America has been for the last 5 years or so) albeit in the smaller circulation world of poetry journals the like.

Contemporary translation, to me, is a bit ‘leechy’ as, in my experience, those I have known or have happened across who practice the ‘art’ are very careful who to ‘pick’ to translate – one eye on the ‘challenge’ the other eye on the noteriety. Now, okay, of course that’s the goal, right? You write something, you want it published, you want the recognition, you want the achievement made public. That, it would be very fair to say, is true of most artistes in whatever genre, with the small exception who aren’t bothered by or shun the whole 15minutes thing. But, for me, the crucial thing about translation is it isn’t borne of independant endeavour, which for me is the lynchpin in true creativity.

There is a HUGE conversation to be had regarding my last sentence, one I am not willing to get into because it is far too involved & would bog this site down further than it ever has been, especially as, obviously, uniqueness in art is a questionable variable/commodity.

Yes, there is a craft involved in conveying the point/atmosphere/imagery/tone/etc. of a foreign text when translating it into English – the trouble is, translation is not an exact science. No two langaugers marry up perfectly, therefore there are compromises that are immediately inbuilt in substituting words/phrases etc. where the literal translation is gibberish or does not exist. Therefore, what you get, rather than the text as was originally conceived, is an interpretation.

As an example, the word Cathedral in Welsh does not have a direct, literal translation – if you wanted to translate the Welsh version back into English it reads something like “the Church with the big chair”. That has a poetry of its own making & out of context is confusing.

Excellent case in point on a reverse angle: the French are up in arms over this year’s French Eurovision entrant, who is singing in English rather than his native tongue. Even the Govt. have commented on it. But the singer/songwriter concerned is quoted as saying (I paraphrase massively) “there are things I can only do in English I can’t do in French; certain turns of phrase, playing with words/meanings, subtle humour etc. is lost when not written in the English language”. Essentially he is saying (like Toad hi-lighted above) there would be two versions of the same song, with starkly differing results in terms of the message portrayed in the lyrics.

For me, though, that’s not as big an issue as the fact the song he is entering is already on an album he has previously released! But that’s another conversation for another day. Perhaps.

An excellent post! Bought that Scott Walker album at the beginning of the decade and it is absolutely fab. What about a post on Bertolt Brecht? (Mack the Knife, September Song for anyone who doesn;t know what I am on about)

Oh, and I don;t see asterix as lowbrow, it’s fantastic stuff. It may be seen as kids’ stuff, but rather like the C.S. Lewis books, you get even more out of them when you go back and read them as an adult.

Ed

DC, where do you get such cool friends? Mine like to talk about oreos. Not that there’s anything wrong with oreos, mind. God forbid.

I second Ed’s call for a Bertolt Brecht post, and how about Serge Gainsbourg? But absolutely no Giorgio fucking Moroder!

Cf&Bf – I’m not sure if I collect these friends, they collect me or I am allowed to sit in the corner just as long as I don’t defecate in it or make too much noise drinking their alcohol – either way, it’s all ably assisted by the ‘media’ micro-scene here in Wales.

Everyone who knows someone, even on the periphery, that has something to do with the *ahem* arts will, by turn, know or know of another 20 people who are involved at some deeper level of artistic endeavour. Of those 20, at least one will have been in Catatonia, Super Furry Animals, has worked with comedian Rob Brydon or Ruth Jones (of Gavin & Stacey fame), or is the brother of Steve Jones (that being the other half of) off of Channel 4’s T4 & other things, etc. etc. & in turn will know the likes of regular BBC TV folk, actors & movie peeps & the like. When you know people like good old Welsh boy, loves his mum, comes home every other month to have Sunday lunch with the family Steve Jones, who frankly is a whore of a man utilising his good looks & fame & money to holster his penis in most every female celebrity he *ahem* comes across, that’s just a stepping stone to glad handing pretty much anyone you care to name.

I’m kinda lucky as The Woman of The House, who has been in my employ for some 12years +, works in TV, as does her brother who has been ‘famous’ in Wales (TV, Radio, Newspaper Columnist, Novelist) for well over 20years, & (because EVERYTHING/ONE in Wales sees the Welsh media as the be all & end all to cultural existence) as a result you meet fucking everyone, go to film premieres, get back stage passes at gigs, get pissed with the likes of the authors Niall Griffiths & Irvin Welsh, blah blah blah.

Also, because I’ve flirted with writing proper (not that any of my comments on S,bT would ever attest to such lofty claims) for over 20years, & because the literature scene in Wales is such an integral part of the cultural mechanics here, I’ve been lucky enough to have been on BBC programmes (local & national, radio & TV) about 10 times, been invited to literature fesitvals around the country, & invited to be a question asking audience member of (Question Time-style) book review programmes (&, as a result, met Stephen Fry – an all time hero – & got to chinwag at the Hay Festival a few years back). So, it’s simply a question of being in the right place at the right time with the right phone number of the right desk.

It also helps being a fleck on the hem of the music scene here – TWR, Drunk Country, JT Mouse/John Mouse all help massively getting your toe in the door. The fact Mouse & I were gig promoters & DJs for 2 or 3 years also helps because the memory span of your average music scenester, student union club goer & band member is very fucking long in these here parts.

As for my ‘other’ friends in the murky world of international espionage & well being, well, that’s all by sheer accident of career & I have no idea how I’m even doing what i am doing, let alone why they let me do it. Suffice, in that business genuine bona fide friends are an essential. They help identify one’s proper dictionary definition of your enemies.

&, oh, ps: I meant, of course, BIOGRAPHY not AUTOBIOGRAPHY in my previous comment – it was stupidfuckingo’clock & I was pissed up when I was writing it & didn’t bother proof reading before I hit the submit button.

Toad, sorry to go on, but i agree with you on Asterix. It isn’t lowbrow at all – it was a history lesson for millions (albeit a little skewed) as well as being enormous fun.

DC – I think Scotland is quite similar actually, as I am finding at the moment, except perhaps twice the size so a little slowly to yield to, erm, penetration.

I take the point about the translations of Brel lyrics being a small part of what makes a good song, and I guess that keeping the meter and the roll of the music probably are more important than the precise literal translations.

And as you say, some jokes and some expressions just cannot be translated at all. But again I come back to Asterix which actually does manage to translate the humour including most of the snarky asides. I guess there’s a lot of artistic license in those though. Has anyone ever read Asterix in any other languages than French and English? I mean, those two languages are very similar really, and should be easier to translate between. How about Hungarian? Or Punjabi?

I really think I would like to get hold of Professor Thingummy’s translations, and even the music if possible, although god knows how I am going to manage that. I would be very interesting to read, particularly in light of this conversation.

No doubt Scotland is, but I think the fundamental difference (apart fro landmass) is Scotland does have a fairly healthy attitude towards & of itself. Wales, on the otherhand, is a little paranoid, low in self esteem, & always on the look out to pin a flag on anything vaguely related* to it as a nation so’s they can stick it i the scrapbook commonly known as the local TV news bulletin & The Western Mail & Echo newspapers.

As a result, the cultural scene here in Wales sticks together like horse glue (albeit fraught with back stabbing & jealousy & insane levels of competitiveness – like anywhere, I guess) & this is why I think it differs a little, too, from the Scottish, Irish or English bretheren. All the other sides have a very confident self-awareness of their worth & ability & achievements to date & beyond; Wales perpetually (because, frankly, the nation – as propelled by the local newshounds – likes a bit of a moan & argument in order to make them feel like they’re contributing to the overall conversation) takes on the role of the underdog then thoroughly over eggs the achievements (real or embellished) of its countrymen (real or embellished).

*a nice & current example is the hubbub over the Calzaghe boxing match about to go down in Las Vegas – Christ knows how many Welsh supporters have made the journey (TWoTH’s brother for one) to wave the dragon & sing in a weird language, at the Americans, on Setanta TV. But, Calzaghe is English by birth, of Italian parents. They moved to Wales when he was a nipper & he has therefore had the Kairdiff accent thrust upn his larynx. Ergo, the confusion of the Welsh natives & their subsequent embracing of his super lightweight frame (resulting in the likes of his awards of Welsh Sports Personality of the year, etc.). You will not find mention of his birth place being London in any of the Welsh news reports leading up to the fight & it is highly unlikely any will appear post-bout should he win – of course, if it is raised, in the English press, then the Welsh media machine will roll out the tried & tested ‘adopted’ defence. Um, because that was so convincing for the likes of Vinnie Jones, right?
)

Ahem… gratifying to provoke such an interesting discussion… and yes, the Next! song above is my own translation, and funnily enough, I have sung it in French before, but people just think you’re a bit pretentious….

It’s such a complex situation in Au Suivant – a line of squaddies waiting to relieve themselves with a whore one by one, goaded on by the lieutenant – that I think you need to be crystal clear setting the scene; the standard English version, as sung by Walker and in that appalling musical, is just confusing (though Alex Harvey does get the full horror of it). I thought it was important to put it in an Anglo-Saxon context, so the adjutant doesn’t stick of “mauvais vin” but of whiskey, and instead of “Ce ne fut pas Waterloo/Mais ce ne fut pas Arcole”, both Napoleonic references that don’t make sense out of a Belgian-French context, I was delighted to find the pairing Vietnam/Amsterdam, that does a similar thing.

Anyway – thanks for posting all this, and perhaps you’ll be pleased to hear I’m working on L’Ivrogne (Ami remplis mon verre)… which I haven’t yet found in English, but is a bit of a belter.

Richard.

Hi, this is a very interesting post. To complete the information, i may suggest the website that i made with my friend Rodolphe (in Italian, French and partially in Dutch, only) all about Jacques Brel’s covers and translations: http://siodmak.altervista.org.
You will find that different english-speaking singers recorded songs of Jacques Brel in the original French lyrics, though no one reached Nina Simone’s bravura. And some of them are really embarassing… And I strongly agree with your opinion about the weakness of many of the McKuen’s translations… ‘Seasons in the sun’ is maybe the worst example about.

How bizarre!

Just received the following despatch via email:

French Eurovision: Glasgow electro act still in the running

Matt and Jack
(The Ex-men)
http://www.myspace.com/theexmen

It always annoyed me a bit the way English speaking people, when they hear music that is not in English, either dismiss it as ‘world music’ or try to come up with some clunky translations of the lyrics. Translations of Gainsbourg’s Melody Nelson drive me up the walls.

Us french people are used to listening to pop music and very shamelessly singing along in mock English. We call it ‘chanter en yaourt’ (yoghurt), and it is very satisfying.

I’m sure even french lovers of ‘chanson a texte’ like Dylan or the Smiths never really worried about not understanding the lyrics so clearly, and were happy enough with the vague knowledge that something deep was going on in the words. Now that I can understand most of what I listen to, I think that years of listening to pop music in English without speaking much of it helped me appreciate the music of words more, and enjoy some level of opacity in lyrics.

Anyway, I think everybody should relax a bit about the language thing and have a go at belting along to Jacques Brel in yoghurt.

Petro: have to agree, ‘World music’ as a label is even more pointless than ‘indie’, ( which at least has a reason for being so-called, even if it is much discussed whether it means anything, or means what it did when the phrase was first applied). Translations can often miss the point, but if it sounds good, you can, like you say, appreciate something.

[...] thin, but this is something Mr. Godwin achieves with considerable aplomb. You may remember him from my recent Jacques Brel post – well Next! was great, and the rest of his music is rich, deep and comforting as well. I know it [...]

Bonjour!
ahem
Really enjoyed the translation and treatment of Au Suivant. And top thread to boot.
I’ve been translating Brel with my wife for a while now, she has the linguistic skills, I- the love of Brel. I’ve long been fully accepting of the Mort Schuman translations primarily because he had proved his worth as a songwriter (Viva Las Vegas, Up On The Roof et al) but also because he’d been given Brel’s blessing, indeed it was Brel who had suggested which songs he tackle. I also have a slightly grudging respect for Rod Mckuen’s efforts because he makes them work so well as English songs in their own right. BTW for a superb translation of Ne Me Quitte Pas, I am of the opinion that Momus’ rendition retains all the integrity and self-effacing beauty of the original.
I’m glad to hear Mr. Godwin is tackling L’Ivrogne, we’ve never got round to finishing that one:
“My friend refill my glass, one more and I’ll be gone, one more and I’m away. No, I’m not about to cry, I’m singing and I’m free but I’m sick of being me”
Who can’t relate to that?
I had a strange experience translating Jojo, the song concerns Jacques visiting the grave of his old friend Jojo and talking to him about their life together and the fact that they’ll be together again soon, at one point Jacques thanks his dead friend for ignoring the fact that his hands are shaking- for ages I struggled to find a suitable equivallent for ‘ Tu vois que mes mains tremblent’, finally on the way to the studio it came to me- ‘Jojo- I know you’ll have seen that I’m all a tremble’, I recorded it- I was happy with the result, but in the back of my mind was a niggle that I’d heard that line somewhere before, several days later it came to me- Rolf Harris’ two little boys. Oh Fuck! thought I, that’s ruined it, but then I remembered the context in which the line appears in Rolf’s song ‘Can you see Joe I’m all a tremble’ as sung by Joe’s brother whose name is…..Jack. Not only do the two songs contain the same line, both are about the lifelong camaraderie of two boys called Jack and Joe? What’s going on here? Were either Jacques and Rolf admirers of each others work?
I’d be happy to send you an MP3 of my recording of Jojo- as yet unreleased.
Salut!

Hello Paul,

I just read your story about translating brel’s lyrics of “Jojo” and it left me a little curious. I’d love to listen to your English version if you would be so kind to send it to me.

Hoping to hear from you!
Marjolein from Belgium

What happened to next by Godwin? Great rendition but not currently available anywhere? Link here is broken, 404 error.

I take things down after a while – partly for financial and partly for legal reasons. I’ll email you the mp3.

That would be great and appreciated. just corrected misspelling of my email address.

Here’s my comment on the whole Brel translation question. Rather than making remarks–evidently based on nothing more than prejudice–about Arnold Johnston’s possible professorial fubsiness, I’d suggest Googling my latest revue, “Jacques Brel’s Lonesome Losers of the Night,” now playing to rave reviews and sold-out houses at Chicago’s No Exit Cafe. The run has been extended several times, and other productions are in the works. My CD, “Jacques Brel: I’m Here!”, can be obtained most readily by getting in touch with me at arnie.johnston@wmich.edu.

Marc Almond recorded an album of Jacque Brel in English which I used to have on tape. He didn’t use any of the Blau/Shuman or McKuen versions. The translations seemed to be very literal, sometimes at the expense of listening pleasure (”I’m Coming”, his version of “J’Arrive”, was hard work) but it was a brave and worthwhile experiment. Momus has done a couple of others besides “Ne Me Quitte Pas”.

Ha ha, Hi Arnie! This is what I get for googling, too! Anyway, I’m currently IN the original chicago production of Lonesome Losers.. And purely from an actor’s point of view I gotta say, i can’t imagine a better translator than Arnie. I think there are plenty of translators that have translated Brel just fine, but Arnie is the ONLY one I’ve encountered that actually preserves the nuance, subtlety, and multi-dimensional tones of each piece. His translations are so accurately and richly wrapped that going into our 4th month of shows I STILL am discovering new meanings hidden within the text. Sometimes they are so profound and small and specific that I marvel at how they were brought across an entire language in tact.

Anyway, I’m not a professional translator, I’m an actor. I rely purely on text to give me a framework from which to work, and I gotta say that Arnie has provided me with such a rich framework that it almost makes my job easy .

I do believe, though, that Arnold Johnston is the only English translator endorsed by the Brel Estate. And not just for the heck of it, too. Keep your eyes out for the published libretto of Lonesome Losers! Or come to Chicago, see the show and let’s chat! -EM

Hello gents. I have to calm Arnie down a little here – my comments weren’t intended as slights on his skills one way or another, merely pointing out that a talent for translation of literature and a talent for music are rather unrelated and the fact that his translations are among the best in no way implies that the recordings are going to be any good. Of course it doesn’t imply the reverse either, but I wasn’t specifically trying have a go at anyone.

I actually ended up not replying to his nice email, more out of disorganisation and bad manners than intent. I fully intend to order a copy of one of those albums of his and genuinely look forward to hearing it.

I had no idea Momus had something of a track record in this area either, so I’ll definitely check those out. Thanks for popping by and saying hello, and I hope the production goes well. It definitely seems to be, so far.