Comments on: Seriously, Why Bother Voting?

By: Matthew

Matthew — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:26:21 +0000

But Ctel, would you argue that there was much qualitative difference between current Labour and Tory camps? It just doesn’t seem to represent a choice – there’s barely a difference to be noted. As I said, I suppose this is why the Americans are so much more galvanised over their own election at the moment – it actually does seem to represent a genuine choice.

By: Ctel

Ctel — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:22:28 +0000

Having seen politicians in action quite a lot, I’m always surprised by how much they do care. How much they start out wanting to get things done and to make a difference. It would be hard to argue that the election of Thatcher in 79 didn’t make a difference to where the UK ended up by the mid-90s. And the Labour politicians of 97 came with ideas about changes that they wanted to make. They did achieve some: minimum wage, child poverty, more money for schools and hospitals. And they do work surprisingly long hours. But the endless grind of 16 hour days takes its toll and they lose the initial clarity of purpose. and become us4ed to being in power, taking it for granted.

Yes, they are assailed at all turns by a range of special interests and by lobbyists of all hues. And they struggle with the irreconcilablity of what they want to ahcieve, how they will fund it and that people want more and more for less and less. And globilisation means that corproate tax revenues are declining and they don’t know how to fund the gap.

By: Adam

Adam — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:00:59 +0000

“The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening” – Rosa Luxembourg.

I knew I’d read this quote somewhere recently but it’s taken me until now to track it down and get it right.

There is that ‘run for office’ thing as well – if you don’t like any of the rest of them do it yourself. Except for that to mean anything beyond tokenism the system means that you either have to ‘do it yourself’ as a party insider (which takes years of backscrubbing and stabbing) or as a representative of a single issue campaign (and astonishingly there are a couple of those in the UK parliament), but getting there means doing all of the local activism stuff first obviously.

Just keep shouting.

By: Campfires & Battlefields

Campfires & Battlefields — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:01:23 +0000

In all seriousness, I do not think that casting a vote is “just pointless pantomime.” Viewed in historical perspective it is in fact a pretty remarkable thing that people now have the power of selection at their command, that they have a “choice,” at least in some respect. The problem I think is not with voting, but with the attitude that voting is enough, standing alone, to make a “democracy.” In nations with large populations it is simply implausible to envision a truly “democratic” election, with hundreds of candidates representing hundreds of different governing philosophies slugging it out; that sort of thing results in governments being elected with such a minimal mandate that they are left essentially impotent. And while impotence of that kind can sometimes be a good thing, it is just as often disastrous.

I suspect that in both the States and the UK the problem is that most people simply cast their vote on election day without having exerted any effort before the election to ensure that suitable candidates are on the ballot. Wealthy corporations (and, to a lesser extent in the States, labor unions) hire people whose only job is to exert such effort to make sure that the names on the ballot are “their” people. These institutional voters and the people they help elect are well aware that for most “normal” people the opportunity costs of this kind of pre-election activism are simply too high; people have jobs to do and children to raise, and they can’t be spending all their time organizing themselves politically and seeking out candidates. As a result, except in times of true crisis where public opinion becomes energized in an unusual way, the names that wind up on the ballot are not the names that most of would wish. The only solution, as Matthew suggests I think, it for those of us who live in countries with “representative” systems to make pre-election activism a much more signifgicant priority in our lives than it is today. Perhaps some of us should even run for office, eh?

By: Matthew

Matthew — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:52:04 +0000

No, you aren’t. I am not saying that caring about politics is stupid, nor getting involved, nor thinking about it, nor participating. I am just seriously wondering whether or not casting a vote counts as ‘participating’ or whether it is just pointless pantomime and if you really care about how the country functions then there might be better, more effective ways to do it. That’s not apathy by any measure.

By: drew

drew — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:13:26 +0000

“I am increasingly finding myself in a situation where I can barely justify voting. I would rather a pathetically low turnout, as political statements go, to pottering along voting for this or that identikit besuited mannequin and continuing to give the impression that they are actually doing their jobs.” – this is hardly a call to action or am i not fucking reading correctly?

By: Matthew

Matthew — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:35:25 +0000

Apathetic, are you fucking joking? Christ, I’ll reply tomorrow when I’m sober, but apathetic? Read, man, just fucking read.

By: drew

drew — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:49:14 +0000

Mathew, you are so, so wrong. It is this apathetic attitude that has given the politicians the ability to treat us with the contempt that they do, because they know that less than 40% of the population will bother to turn out. We used to live in a country where there was a 2 party state, however a man called Keir Hardie and other like minded individuals changed that position and this could happen again if people got off of there arses and stopped moaning about not being able to do anything.
As for your jibe at the SNP and their “borderline racism”, i live in the west of Scotland and all the racist bigots that I know support the unionist parties (no i am not a nationalist but will stand up for them on that).
In Scotland as you must be aware we do not live under a 2 party system anymore and i believe the parliament is the better for that, Labour will have to start treating the electorate with a little bit of respect as the days of putting a red rosette on a monkey and him getting elected are over. The executive did rather upset a lot of people (in Whitehall at least) when they introduced free care for the elderly, no tuition fees for students and cutting the prescription charges.
Coming from a family that contains individuals with political views that cover the whole spectrum and who is proud of the fact that his grandfather was in George Square when the government sent the tanks in it both saddens and angers me that people can be so apathetic.
In the words of Chris Dean “the power is yours”
Drew

By: Matthew

Matthew — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:36:17 +0000

That’s what I am thinking. I am on the verge of abandoning voting altogether and trying to get more involved with local activism on issues I give a shit about. Voting, as I see it, doesn’t really say anything, although I guess spoiling the ballot does make sense.

I just suppose that I wonder how low the turnout would have to become before the cunts admit that they are the problem.

By: Adam

Adam — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:31:56 +0000

The other thing you can do is what you’re doing here – ultimately it is far more important to stand up and shout about stuff, to make a stand yourself and to make people think about the world, than it is to go into a booth and vote. I know I will carry on turning up and doing something with the ballot paper although eventually I may just be left with the energy to spoil it, but I know that I’ll still find somewhere somehow to talk about this stuff and to think about it and maybe, even if it’s just within my immediate peer group or (er, possibly slightly professionally dubiously) with the kids I teach. All of that is more significant and meaningful than just turning up as one vote out of 100,000 in a constituency.