Song, by Toad’s FM Friendly American Dad-Rock Shitfest
Okay, there have been some comments recently about… well, read the title of the post and guess for yourself. So I thought it was time to address this issue, although not in as confrontational a manner as you might expect, given my enthusiasm for invective.
I like – now prepare yourselves here – quite a few songs by the following artists: Dave Fucking Matthews Fucking Band, Phish, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, Hootie & the Blowfish and Bruce Hornsby & the Range. I don’t particularly feel the need to make excuses for any of this, but I do wonder slightly that these bands are so hated by my peers, when I think they’re okay, for the most part, despite the borderline self-parodying sludge they degenerated into later in their careers.
Bruce Hornsby doesn’t really fit with the other lot, I guess, and I think that may be a nostalgia thing. I used to hear his first couple of albums quite a bit when I was growing up, so it’s kind of stuck with me. It’s funny that I have a similar sort of nostalgic affection for Cyndi Lauper’s first (I think) album, but because that’s so ironic it doesn’t seem to attract quite the same derision.
I don’t know who has any sort of liking for the softer side of the indie spectrum – Bloc Party, The Killers’ first, early Snow Patrol, stuff like that. It’s sort of like indie, but a softer sort with a lot of the edges rubbed off and something of a fuller, more radio-friendly sound. I’ll admit, I love the early stuff by all three of these groups. I also find myself thinking that my Dave Fucking Matthews and Counting Crows liking is probably the equivalent to this, but for Americana. I like a fair bit more Americana than a lot of the readers of this site, I get the impression, and maybe the softer end of that scale leaves me less hostile to the sort of musical territory we’re talking about here.
The other thing is that this is squarely in the 90s American indie rock camp, which should be just about due for its period of loathing, before the inevitable nostalgia trips begin in a few years. I’m not saying the nostalgia will exonerate any of these bands of course, but it’s funny who it leaves behind. The 80s revival seemed to rather oddly exclude Phil Collins, when you’d think that anyone so universally loathed would make for perfect ironic re-appraisal for the arch and superior. On the other end of the spectrum, Springsteen’s classic Born in the USA doesn’t seem to have been able to avoid being dragged down by the 80s production values with which it is saddled. So it’s a bit of a lottery, I suppose.
Before anything gets reappraised it seems to go through this period where it is detested with a more frantic passion than ever before. We’re getting on for ten years away from the 90s now, and 90s indie is probably about as unfashionable a sound as exists at the moment. Also, the rabid enthusiasm for the 80s seems to be waning somewhat. Even clothes are starting to resemble early 90s away kits from the Premier League, albeit only on the hippest of kids.
So, I think the reason this stuff is so hated is not unrelated to the fact that the mid 90s are currently approaching the nadir of their appreciation, before the inevitable sea change. Whether or not this revival will take any of this stuff with it I have no idea, but nor do I care in particular. The Dave Fucking Matthews Fucking Band have two, if not three, really good albums. Fairweather Johnson by Hootie & the Blowfish is good. Farmhouse by Phish is good. Even Sheryl Crow produced half a good album, with her self-titled ’98 release. So you can snigger all you want, but I stand by this, and there’s absolutely no way there isn’t an equivalent MOR secret in your music collection somewhere.
Counting Crows – Have You Seen Me Lately?
Hootie & the Blowfish – Sad Caper
Phish – Bug
Bruce Hornsby & the Range – The Old Playground
Dave Fucking Matthews Fucking Band – Jimi Thing
I’d like to say that August And Everything After by Counting Crows is a brilliant album. H&TBF were also a favourite of mine when I was 16. Musical tastes change and mature so I wouldn’t say I ever listen to H&TBF anymore but they certainly dragged me away from grunge and pushed me in the direction I am in now. Also – I saw them live once and they do a mean Tom Waits cover. They also got me into Vic Chesnutt so another plus to them.
Get in there! At least there’s one!
I obviously like Americana and “softer” music more than your average reader, but I agree with you. Well, I never liked Dave Matthews much, but I did like Sheryl Crow’s and Counting Crows’ early albums (til they & Liz Phair went pop), and (until now) have hidden my affection for The Killers, Snow Patrol, The Fray, and Keane – never bought their albums, but I do have a “Wonder Bread” mix CD of their singles.
I view them in the same way I do nostalgic one-hit wonders from the ’80s and ’90s. Not great, but nice for certain moods and better than most of the crap on the radio.
The Fray? Keane? Now you’ve gone too far, young lady.
(Actually I have a b-side from Keane’s first or second single which I like, and if I’d only ever heard three songs from their debut album I might have liked them. It’s when the rest of it turned up, only to be absolutely identical, that I really started to hate them. And they’re cunts, of course. That didn’t help either.)
I do like Counting Crows quite a bit still, call me crazy. His live rendering of songs is brilliant, blending two songs/covers together. And I’m quite partial to “1492.” Hootie is always good, I’m sorry, there’s just always a time and a place for that kind of croonerish, male voice in my music library. Ditto for Bruce Hornsby and his awesome stories set to music.
Phish and DFMFBF (yeah I added that last “fucking” cause I am so not a fan) cannot be redeemed by one good song or one good album. There are just too many rabid, ugly (and by that I mean, like C&B, pretty, unavailable and uninterested in ME) fans. So they and all that love them incessantly can just kiss my big, white, american ass while I dance like nobody’s watching to the Killers. (insert smiley face here)
Firstly, Bruce Hornsby belongs no where near this list. For a start if he is soft anything, it should be jazz. Maybe because the style of music suits him better, or maybe because he is just that smoooth. He is also brilliant.
I think you wrote this post a while back but, to this day you like a lot of Killers stuff because you find it very evocative. Surely it’s just the same with HaTBF and FDFMFBF. If they evoke a time period then you will like them more. Sure they aren’t Tom Waits but i defy anyone on this post not to have a very specific time in their lives that pops into their head when they hear FDFFMFFBF, H&THFF or Sherly F Crow.
And I like half the HF&theFBFish album.
That said Phish suck, and can’t spell.
Bruce Hornsby is only on this list because Dylan was moaning about him in the Mumford & Sons thread.
I don’t just like FH&tFB & FDFMFBFFF because of having a history with them. The only reason I bought the albums in the first place and the only reason that history exists is because I like some of the music. Phish’s Farmhouse album is good, too, no matter how annoying their fans and how much interminable wank is in the rest of their recordings. Lillywhite is a genius.
Phish. God, how I loved them in 1990. Junta and Lawn Boy are both top notch. Top! Notch!
.
That’s from Esther on Junta. “His lips hurled a dollop of murk on the curb.” Fucking Shakespeare.
August & Everything After is a magnificient album.
SEE! We all have an inner Dadrock Slippers Wearer. Admit your shame, people, admit your shame!
I happen to disagree that Counting Crows are dad-rock.
Did you really write this whole post just as a lame attempt to try and un-pwn yourself after I nailed you to the wall on the Mumford thread earlier?
Counting Crows have become dismal Dadrock. The fact that their previous output was good is no more of an excuse for their later stuff than is Snow Patrol’s.
And I think pwnage involves some degree of shaming. I make no apology for liking any of this.
I actually have never really forgiven FDFMFBtheF for getting a mix tape off you with two songs on it (Satellite and Best of What’s Around I think) and thinking he was going to be fantastico, then buying the album and bar those songs being underwhelmed.
I actually wouldn’t recognise a Phish song if I heard one. But their fans are a bit crap. Which is unfair to judge a band on. Remember the lesson of the Smiths.
I really like Ben & Jerry’s Phish Food ice cream.
One of my favourite flavours.
This sounds like pwn-denial, Matthew. Would you like to talk about it? I’m here for you if you think it would help.
That whole album is pretty good, as is Crash. As, actually, is Before These Crowded Streets. I know it makes me sound like a frat boy from the late 90s to say this, but I think it’s true.
Oh the lesson of the Smiths…. yes you’re quite right there, Ben. I skulk away in shame and endeavor to listen to an entire Phish album for the first time, all the way through. And Matthew, that’s twice now that Dylan’s offered his er, services. I’d be wary by now.
Is 90s american Indie all that unfashionable at the moment? All the cool kids I know LOVE Pavement, Guided By Voices, early Weezer, Teenage Fanclub, Built To Spill etc – that whole lo-fi, slacker, college-rock scene.
Or am I thinking of the wrong scene here? I’m a little bit young to have actually lived through it.
…Or it could just be that I’m even further from being a cool kid than I imagined.
(Also, not liking Pavement should be constitutionally banned. So if there is any sort of period of loathing coming, I’m gonna be very upset.)
I went through a brief hippie phase when I was 18, where I sort of liked FFFDMBFFFF, OAR and John Mayer. But christ, Hootie and the Fucking Blowfish?? Not sure about that one, Toad.
I’d prefer Counting Crows at their best to Bloc Party at their best on any day of the year. But then I am an American and a Dad, so maybe not the best person to ask. Now Hootie was always crap and Phish sounds great only when you’re stoned. But the Dave Fucking Matthews Band, the Steve Lillywhite version of Busted Stuff is just an outstanding recording. Indie rock snobbery is just tired.
oh my…..i don’t know how you lot can be arsed to write so much…..counting crows awesome first couple of albums….then went a little bit pah….still show a flicker of light from time to time….enough so that i will go and see em in December.
Hootie & the Blowfish….complete and unmitigated shite…try hards that should just go away…in fact i love americana but these example’s of it are utter utter utter crap.
(also it should be a crime, punishable by death from drown in others spit, if people don’t own at least the first 2 pavement albums!!)
I never really got into Pavement, but then I never made a real effort to do so either. I wasn’t so keen on Terror Twilight, but I know that’s one of their later ones, so it probably doesn’t count. What’s the best starter, do you reckon?
Slanted and Enchanted, hands down.
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain is quite good too, but Slanted and Enchanted is “da bomb,” as it were.
As it were.
Well, quite.
Crooked Rain is far more accessible than Slanted for a first timer. I would argue it’s better than Slanted but would be in a minority.
I’m not sure if Pavement is really for you, Toad.
Though have you heard Garth Brooks?
Think he’d be right up your street.
His recent albums, on vinyl, will be right up your street in a minute, Barticus. With some force.
I really do think it’s too late to start getting aggressive in defence against anyone suggesting you might enjoy a bit of MOR Country-Lite, Matthew.
Garth Brooks is not even as good as MOR country-lite.
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain….was the one that got me by the balls
i don;t think i’ve ever heard a Garth Brooks song all the way through….
Back to this nonsense about Counting Crows being Dad Rock. Matthew – that’s a crock of shit my friend. Snow Patrol got bad. Counting Crows just kept doing what they’ve always done – perhaps not as well but not badly. August and Everything After and indeed Recovering the Satellites are brilliant albums. This Desert Life is also a good album and Hard Candy isn’t bad either – so a bit more polished it has some lovely tunes on it. I’m not having you compare them to Snow Patrol. At least Counting Crows can still write a good tune. Have you heard that piece of shit that SP have just released? That’s just not on. Why did Gary Lightbody not just stick with The Reindeer Section? Adam Duritz wanks all over GL as a songwriter, from a great height. Shocking comparison.
Also – what was Gareth Brooks alter ego called? Sure he released albums under a different name. Changed his hair colour and everything.
i heard the new Snow Patrol single on Jools Holland the other night….kinda liked it….
Apart from that i agree with everything Euan said about CC
I don’t entirely diasgree, Euan. I just really do not at all like recent Counting Crows stuff. I thought Hard Candy was awful, although there were a couple of surprisingly decent b-sides on the singles. Their earlier stuff was great, but they became such a watered down version of themselves that I really lost all interest.
Recent Snow Patrol is equally shit, in my view, but Gary Lightbody isn’t a complete buffoon. As you say, The Reindeer Section stuff was brilliant. Their first album is patchy, but genuinely interesting and has some great moments, and their second album is just plain excellent. I didn’t even mind Final Straw particularly, although the last two have been truly awful.
So I think we sort of agree for the most part.
I believe you are referring to Chris Gaines, which is to Garth Brooks what Mumford & Sons is to Dave Matthews.
Dave Fucking Matthews, I think you’ll find.
[...] who is rapidly becoming my favorite music blogger, has been writing a lot about “Dad Rock” lately. You know the genre, the kind of music that your Dad sings along to when it came on the radio, the [...]