Toadcast #57 – Production Values
After a week spent debating it, how about a podcast embodying the discussions we’ve been having about production values I thought a podcast which sort of pulls all the disagreements and moans and whingeing and so on into one big mp3 of joy would be a good idea.
So we’ve got some Big Production, some demo scratchy stuff and a few bands who have dabbled with both. I fart on about production values as if I have the faintest idea what I’m talking about, which of course I don’t.
I’m not sure how well it works as a playlist – it might be a bit disjointed – but in general I like it. I like the debate in general, I like the thought process we’ve all gone through together this week, and in general, by association, I like this podcast.
Toadcast #57 – Production Values
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01. Bruce Springsteen – Born in the USA (Original Nebraska Sessions Demo Version) (04.31)
02. Radiohead – Everything in its Right Place (11.13)
03. Enfant Bastard – Vessel (20.19)
04. Half Man Half Biscuit – 1966 and All That (22.37)
05. U2 – Red Hill Mining Town (29.56)
06. Snow Patrol – Last Ever Lone Gunman (37.40)
07. The Divine Comedy – Life on Earth (42.10)
08. Yann Tiersen – Geronimo (Black Session w. Neil Hannon) (46.07 )
09. The Wave Pictures – A Long Way Away From Me (53.34)
10. Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band – Rosalita (Come Out Tonight) (Live at Hammersmith Odeon, 1975) (57.35)
No Van Halen?
Holy shit. I’d never heard that demo version of Born in the USA before. That’s amazing.
It’s not at all bad, is it C&B. I wish I’d heard the other Nebraska Sessions songs from Born in the USA too.
I have to agree that version of Born In The USA really is astonishing..
I’ve just been listening in the shower and it was funny to find myself singing along to a song I know so well, but to a quite different tune.
It just made immediate sense. Really, really good.
Apparently the big shiny version was largely improvised in the studio and recording in one go. The false start with the drums genuinely is a mistake, they just decided to leave it in.
Really not sure where this should have fitted on Friday, but Hefner should have been mentioned somewhere. maybe all of them.
Just want to say, that although I haven’t been contributing (busy few days, plus I usually try to comment only when I can ‘give’ something to the discussion), I’ve been really enjoying the crack on this subject. When Toadarooni writes:
“I fart on about production values as if I have the faintest idea what I’m talking about, which of course I don’t.”
I can appreciate. I don’t know anything about it all either, but I know that production values have shaped my views on many songs, either adding or subtracting from the pleasure of the song.
Take these two tracks. Bit rough, perhaps, but, God, I love them
Decemberists – Sunshine: http://letterboxrecords.com/suns.mp3
Figurine – Way To Good: http://letterboxrecords.com/way.mp3
I’m a bit fucked so hope all that makes sense. I’ve got 5 minutes left at the end of my exam, so I’ll use the time productivity and re-read.
Ahh, lessons gained in life.
Oh shit.
I meant ‘Productively’
That was 5 minutes well spent then.
I’m glad you mentioned Billy Bragg and Bob Dylan because both of them broke onto the scene with a very ‘basement band’ sound, explored it, played with it, and tried different sounds throughout their careers. With varying degrees of success.
good good good…..we could argue till our knuckles are grazed and our eyes are blackened about the ins and outs of all this shite…..but all that aside i really enjoyed this!!!
Maybe you should use the last song as a lead into next’s week podcast…..the live album one….just an idea
Hey, that’s a really good idea. Might well do that.
I fucking hate live albums.
I often do not like them. But then, that’s the challenge, isn’t it.
Bob Dylan’s live in ’66 and most Springsteen live recordings are fucking amazing though, so more like that and less of the ‘same old song, just a shit recording of it’ persuasion.
There’s always going to be a few exceptions, but on the whole they’re pointless self-indulgent nonsense.
I mean; a band goes in to a studio to record the best version of a song they can – not to resurrect all the production values arguments – but they generally use the studio to achieve a sound they’re most happy with.
The appeal of a live concert lies in sharing the thrill of the crowd and being in the same room as the musicians and enjoying the physical experince of the music.
The live album concept utterly fails on both counts.
You’re left feeling disappointed and dejected. In terms of the music; the live recording will rarely capture the energy of the moment, and won’t be as carefully crafted as a studio recording.
In terms of keeping a document of the event, that’s surely only of interest to the people who were actually there on the night. For anyone else it’s just like listening to a party going on next-door that you haven’t been invited to. Everyone else is having a good time apart from you.
i like em…..
There’s more to a live show than that, Dylan. Often because of the necessity of stripped down lineups the songs are arranged very differently, which I find fascinating. And it’s not unusual for the performance to be more energetic than a more studied studio counterpart, and sometimes that can come across in the recordings – Bruce Springsteen being a good example.
Basically I agree with you, and far too many people release them just as marketing ploys, but it’s not all that unusual for them to be very good indeed. I’m cautious with them, of course, but they can be worth it with certain bands.
i remember back in the day that the first i’d hear of many bands would be via a live album…..such Alchemy by Dire Straits, which i bloody love….and anyway i prefer live albums over best of’s which i think are a complete waste of time and money.
Best Ofs are very, very frustrating, especially now that labels are trying the whorish trick of including a couple of new songs just to force fans to buy the cunting things. Chiselling, avaricious, vampire fucking whores.
You’re not going to convince me.
This is yet another example of where I’m right and the rest of the entire worldwide listening community are wrong.
So there!
you are so wrong…..Mr Dylan
Tragic.
Wrong, and tragic.
If it weren’t for live album the world would never have heard Kiss or Peter Frampton.
…A fine kettle of fish that would be.
Hey! I’ve got an idea. Let’s begin a discussion about the relative merits of Alela Diane’s live performance versus her studio output.
Live!… From Washington DC!… Triple! Post! Mentalism-ism-ism-ism-ism….!!!
With a little fear of killing off whatever indie cred I had left Simon and Garfunkel live in Central Park is an absolutely amazing CD. And especially useful because without hearing it I would never have understood what they we live.
The same is true of my Dire Straits live Cd.
I’ll get my cardigan shall I?
Aw. I lost my icon!
Is this because I own Dire Straits live?
Oh Ben. I shake my head ruefully. Ruefully, I say. You know, I’ve heard that the Little River Band is simply splendid live. Why don’t you check them out and report straight back.
Paul Simon is one of my favourite songwriters and performers, I love his solo work and the Simon & Garfunkel era stuff. Hell, I even love Art Garfunkel singing <Bright Eyes, but that Central Park live album makes me want to climb a clock tower with a high-powered rifle and shoot at all the silly little live-album-buying specks walking around on the streets below.
It sounds like it was recorded on someone’s dictaphone a couple of streets away, and they accidentally put the dictaphone through the washing machine before transferring the recoridng to CD.
And as for the performances from Messrs. Simon and Garfunkel, well there was more life in the organic yoghurt I just had for breakfast.
It really is one of the live albums that helped form my abject hatred of them.
Sorry, Ben!
That’s a pretty good album actually, and the sound quality is definitely pretty decent.
I think Dylan is suffering from a Joe McCarthy/Communism style Pavlovian reaction which is suspiciously similar to a teenage crush.
Whatever, minger.
And it still doesn’t stop that Central Park album being shit.
Aww, how sweet.
The Central Park album is great (it’s a big party really) and the sound quality is, as Matthew said, pretty damn good. I don’t really understand where you’re coming from Dylan, why’s it so bad?
Because it’s a live album and I have a – clearly irrational – deep-seated hatred of them.
Why does Dav’s avatar keep changing colour?
He was a wispy grey yesterday, now he’s a camp-as-fairy-lights pink.
My fault that, I signed in on a different computer and used a different email address. I’ll endeavor to stick to camp pink in future.
No one mentioned the shaggs, one of my favourite bands ever.
They are a well-loved band around these parts. Did you see the Samamidon Toad Session? He talks about them at the start a lot, and then bookends 1842 with excerpts from The Rich People Want What the Poor People Got. Fucking brilliant!
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