Lady Rock
On the subject of women in indie, I remember that I never did get into much female fronted music as a kid. It was all R.E.M., Billy Bragg, The Pogues, Bob Dylan and stuff like that. Not much that was current and, for no obvious reason, not much stuff made by women, particularly with lead female vocals. Maybe if I’d been more into Motown and soul that might have been different, but I never really crossed paths with Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez or Marianne Faithfull either, who were all working in the same basic territory which I was exploring at the time. Sandy Denny was one of the most conspicuous exceptions, but I can’t think of many others off the top of my head.
This didn’t really change until I went to university. All that was really different there was that I became considerably more aware of popular music which was popular away from the dominance of the likes of MTV and so on. So I started getting into bands like Saint Etienne and their ilk and I was sort of interested in the Cranberries without ever really clicking with them. The real sea change was of course the explosion of sassy, lady-led groups which came with Britpop. It became such an obvious phenomenon that I seem to recall Louise Wener of Sleeper wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with ‘Just Another Female-Fronted Band’ at some point, although my memory is far from definite on the subject.
Anyhow, I got really into Sleeper (although perhaps only really from their second album onwards, rather than their first), I loved the first two Echobelly albums and I really liked Belly as well. Elastica were around at the same time, but I never quite got into them, and the Cocteau Twins were really good too, but not quite Britpop I guess. If you follow those links then you’ll be able to pick up almost any of these albums for a pittance on Amazon Marketplace, and there’s some amazing stuff there.
Maybe it’s because it was the first popular movement I engaged with at the time, but I still have a real affection for Britpop, despite its foisting the likes of Menswear on us. It was brash and confident, and maybe that was the attitude which I responded to the most in this plethora of female-led rock bands. I know that same attitude was largely the undoing of the movement as a whole in the end, as it got all tangled up in itself. And with the decline of Britpop most of these groups disappeared from the scene to a large extent.
It was fun though – lots of fun. It was the first time I’d really engaged with the thrill of anticipating new music, as opposed to exploring what was already out there. It sounds dated as hell listening back to it now, and maybe that’s why those albums are all so cheap, but there are too many memories for that to matter much.
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i love Sleeper…….full stop….period
did you know she’s an author now?
aye….even more sexy
i’ve not seen her since her sleeper days. pamela was sleeper fan. i quite liked echobelly myself. i also had a thing for lush – though i think that stems from the lead singer with the red hair being hot.
and i do love a good female voice. trespassers william’s vocalist is great as is Elly from Glissando and (i know you hate them matthew) but Beth Gibbons voice is stunning. Martha Wainwright as well. regardless of gender i always get drawn in by an interesting, possibly slightly odd voice.
Love that Echobelly song. Reminds me of being in my old house with my big brother blasting that and Definitely Maybe out. Remember I faked illness for a day off school just so I could sneak into his room and listen to his Cd’s, which he never let me touch. Damn it Toad, you’ve got me all nostalgic, so i’m off to find my copy of the “first” Shed Seven album…
Cheers for that though, made my day.
P.S. more on topic, I can’t believe you don’t like PJ Harvey (older post I think this was stated). Her records are amazing. In my Top five favourites for sure. White Chalk is incredible (yes this is me getting enthusiastic about music!).
you make me feel old Jim….i was working in a small indie record shop when the ‘first’ Shed Seven album came out, and for some reason i got onto the guest list for a gig in Newcastle…where Supergrass supported.
Saw Sleeper supporting the Manics a couple of times….my girlfriend at the time would get jealous at me cos i like them so much…nutter….she was the same with skunk anansie…she was dumped soon enough.
You know, I can’t believe I don’t really like PJ Harvey either. It just doesn’t seem to fit with everything else I do like, but for some reason I’ve never really managed to enjoy her stuff in practise as much as I should enjoy it in principle, if you know what I mean.
Polly Harvey has a new album out this month, on the 30th March, and i’m getting kinda excited about it….she is up there with the stars for me.
You are old Chutters!!!!
Anyone else have a secret thing for Skin from Skunk Anansie…I’m sure they’re out there. Aye the new album got a 4 star in Q, which doesn’t mean much but was pretty positive. Stories from the City remains my favourite although I do except this is her most commercial. It just has the best songs on it in my opinion.
Likewise, re stories from the city…..tho she doesn’t like it that much….so I read over the weekend….i also learned over the weekend that the boatman calls by Nick Cave was written in response to him being dumped by Polly Harvey.
did you see how i ignored the old jibe…..
I saw Sleeper supporting REM at the Milton Keynes Bowl on the Monster tour, and they were – well – a bit dull.
Radiohead were on the bill too. They weren’t dull.
It also happened to be Louise Wener’s birthday and I remember Michael Stipe called her back out on stage during the REM set and the whole crowd sang happy birthday to her.
Which was nice.
Yup nothing fuels the “Artist” (just for you Chutters) like a good dumping. My ex got about 5 albums out of me, but they were all shit, which I reckon is more a reflection on her (Hah, revenge at last!!!!). Can you be tempted for an ale after work Chutney man? Bit of football?
Also, that Cocteau Twins song is great. I don’t know them as well as I should. Which is the best one to start with?
It’s sign of dsitinction and maturity to be able to turn the cheek in such a way. you are indeed the better man.
tonight…..yeah….i was just gearing myself up for macaroni cheese in front of the tv…..i’d already f’book’d you re saturday…..drop me a line on that unless toad might get annoyed at us sorting our social lives out via him
FACEBOOK!—->
In answer to your question though Jim, I don’t know the Cocteau Twins that well either – just a smattering of songs I like here and there.
too late
Nah.. Arrange stuff on here!
It’s better than telly!
i like white chalk best myself. but thats the miserable git in me coming through.
i am truly ignoring the fact that Toad doesn’t like Polly Harvey…..it just doesn’t compute in my little head.
white chalk is sensational. first album of hers i really got.
Well, Britpop hit me over here but with a kind of glancing blow. Mostly the male version in fact was what I got. For me, female music was all about folk/pop/rock stuff from the 60s and 70s, the Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez stuff. But in the late 90s I was totally into the riotgrrl scene which played nicely into my punk affections yet took the feminist (oh avert your eyes! hahah) rage to music. So, I love me some echobelly but it’s with groups like L7 and Sleater-Kinney and Bikini Kill that I had the experience you talk about here.
I was a huge Cranberries fan tho, still love the early stuff really. Nothing like it, and that is what a pivotal band is all about.
I missed the boat on PJ Harvey too (don’t know who I was shagging at the time, but think it was a horrible Rolling Stones diversion period), but I enjoy her now, just not the same as being into her when she hit tho.
xoxo,
Tart
Matthew & Tart – While I love PJ’s To Bring You My Love album and the song “Rid of Me”, I got a bit bored with her work after that. So I suggest starting there if you’ve not been impressed by her recent releases. I also loved & still love The Cranberries first two albums. And I think Belly’s Star album is still one of the best of the past two decades.
Ps. Regarding Toad’s previous post: My condolences on the work hassle. I’ve been there at past jobs, and it’s one of the most uncomfortable confrontations to have.
White Chalk is great, but her vox are so over-the-top keening on some of the tunes that it’s a bit hard not to chuckle a bit. The wife always gives me that WTF is this look when I play it. If things were truly that bad, surely she’d have offed herself by now.
I really like Rid of Me, and I think the tune Rub ‘Til It Bleeds may be her greatest song, although 50-Foot Queenie is right up there.
As for the Cocteau Twins, great great band. One of the greatest in my ‘pinion. Best place to start would probably be Blue Bell Knoll because it’s very accessible and the melodies are phenomenal, but I think Treasure is their best record. It’s where their greatness and uniqueness first came through. They also did a fantastic record with Harold Budd in the mid- to late-80s called The Moon and the Melodies.
Much obliged, you are indeed a scholar and a gentleman.
Chutters, I don’t really understand the PJ harvey thing myself. It’s genuine, though. Remeber the Marianne Faithfull album a couple of years ago on which she sang songs written by Damon Albarn, Nick Cave and (mostly) PJ Harvey? Well without fail, and even without know who had written them, the ones on that which I liked the least were all PJ Harvey’s songs.
It just doesn’t make sense, given the rest of my music taste, but it seems to be pretty steadfast and honest.
Finally, finally I get some of the well-earned appreciation and respect on this blog that are owing to a man of my station. Who is this “Jim” person? I like the cut of his jib!
” saw Sleeper supporting REM at the Milton Keynes Bowl on the Monster tour, and they were – well – a bit dull.
Radiohead were on the bill too. They weren’t dull.
It also happened to be Louise Wener’s birthday and I remember Michael Stipe called her back out on stage during the REM set and the whole crowd sang happy birthday to her.
Which was nice.”
OMG I was there too. Funnily enough, Radiohead were on after Sleeper but before the Cranberries (in fact, that day Sleeper become the very first band I’d ever seen twice – I lived in the back of beyond).
Think the Cranberries blew it after the first album in retrospect. As for PJ, I’d seen her the previous month at Glastonbury and she was phenomenal. Mind you, a lot of people love the Cranes Matthew, and I find Alison’s voice grating…
What you say about PJ Harvey in duet is true. Stories From the City… is an excellent record, but the tune I like least is her duet with Thom Yorke, and I fucking love Thom Yorke.
Are you talking to me, C&B? None of those were duets, just songs penned for Marianne Faithfull to sing solo.
Are you sure? I thought PJ sang with Marianne Faithfull on Who The Fuck?
Eh? I am talking about this album here: Before the Poison.
My bad. Who The Fuck is on PJ’s album Uh Huh Her, which was made at the same time as Before the Poison. Ahem. So… who d’ye like at Wimbledon this year?
Ed, I’d completely forgotten The Cranberries were on the line-up that day too. That sums up the impression they left on me.
And above Radiohead on the bill. Surreal.
Good day out though.
They played two nights didn’t they – a Saturday and Sunday. The Sunday was our day, and I remember Blur were on the bill the day before – but who else?..
Great post Matthew. I missed the Britpop boat myself so in all honesty I haven’t a clue who you’re talking about, but I enjoyed reading about it anyway.
Oh, except for The Cranberries, of course I know who they are. Have you checked out Dolores’ solo stuff? Doesn’t really do it for me.
Your mention of Joni Mitchell, since we’re being nostalgic and all, reminded me of the forcefeeding of my youth as well. Tho I do love a port induced Joni evening from time to time….
Not being particularly fond of Delores O’ROARin ilk, I’d like to ask your take on the likes of Chrissie Hynde, Victoria Williams, Lou Rhodes, etc. Quality IMHO. (I’mma get you a copy of Sweet Relief if you don’t already have it.)
Ladies who rock… well… rock!
Off the topic of pop but on the topic of strong women in music, anybody up for some Nina Simone? A proud black woman singing a tune called Mississippi Goddam in predominantly white nightclubs in the United States in 1963? And here are some of the lyrics:
“Oh but this whole country is full of lies
You’re all gonna die and die like flies
I don’t trust you any more
You keep on saying go slow!
Go slow!”
A lady who truly rocked, when there was no money in the job.
Agreed C&B.
Nina’s version of Sinnerman shakes my very soul as well.
Listening to Sinnerman as we speak. And See Line Woman? She beat Gil Scott-Heron to the punch by about 6 or 7 years with that groove.
Dylan – the previous day was Blur with Oasis on before them. Strange but true, given what would kick off in a matter of weeks…
Oh, and Nina Simone absolutely rules.
we would be blessed to have a woman vocalist half as strong as Nina Simone today.
It’s a bit harsh to measure everyone since Nina Simone to a legend of her stature though. ‘Oh fuck, some female vocalists today are merely brilliant!’ The shame of it!
It’s good to keep in mind what the true gold standard sounds like, though. I frequently go months at a stretch without listening to anything recorded before 1980, and it’s always a revelation when I go back and listen to legends like Nina Simone, Patti Smith, Sandy Denny, or Joni Mitchell. Just a totally different order of magnitude from much of what’s produced today, although I do think that PJ Harvey belongs in their company.
Yeah – from my perspective when I need to clear out the ‘no better than reasonable midwest indie rock band’ cobwebs, which really do descend when doing this, a bit of late night legends on loud (with gin) always refreshes the ears.
And reorientates one’s critical faculties, actually, which can be very important as well.
C&B – Nina is probably my favorite singer of all time (depending on the mood, Billie Holiday or Patti Smith can take the top spot), and “Mississippi Goddamn” is definitely my favorite Nina song. “Ain’t Got No/I Got Life” is a close second.
ohh Great Band Echobelly was, Like Moz haha