Toadcast #59 – The Sexcast
This has been coming for a while , frankly. I nearly deleted this podcast on Saturday morning before it was even published, but I allowed myself to give in to the false deadline I set myself to publish these once every Saturday.
Why have I deleted it? Well in many ways that should be obvious, I suppose. I was going to leave all the comments up, because I quite like the fact that a lot of people called me out on what shit this podcast was – that’s what friends are for, and it might well have been easier to just turn your backs and wander off, so I appreciate you taking the time. Ultimately, though, I thought we might be better off just flushing the whole sorry episode and moving on. I hope you don’t think I am doing this as a way of hiding from your criticisms though.
What finally convinced me to get rid of the bloody thing was the last comment, from Mr. Bear:
“this is an ugly mess of a post and although you are known to push the boat out when it comes to good taste, this is so extreme that it doesn’t even sound like you.”
I have felt just a little bit sick about this podcast since the second I listened back to it on Saturday, and that comment pretty much sums up my feelings about the whole business. I appreciate the people who stood up for me in the comments, but I am not sure that when publishing anything it is really acceptable to hide behind the ‘you know he doesn’t really mean it’ defence.
So do I think people should have known that this wasn’t even slightly intended to be actually against feminism, of course, and that really was bloody obvious. But even so, the whole thing was a fucking debacle, and really didn’t sound anything like me. Or like the person I think of myself as being, I suppose. I know people made comments about ‘representing the Edinburgh music scene’, and whilst I know that I make it pretty clear this blog is just me spewing my own personal opinions and no more, I do take those ‘representative’ comments as the compliment they should be. Honestly, though, that podcast really didn’t represent my views either, which is one of the many reasons it came down. I don’t mind being told off for what I really do think, but that podcast didn’t really represent that. It didn’t represent much, actually, there were few discernible, concrete points to disagree with or defend.
Just for the record, here’s what I was trying to say:
- I argue with feminists a lot, but that is probably why I like them, even though it might often seem like I don’t.
- Indie music does seem to be rather male-dominated. As Bart pointed out in his sadly now-deleted comment, this isn’t really the case in Edinburgh, but it does still seem in a broader sense to be true – musicians, writers, producers, etc etc. I’m not sure why, either, because I actually don’t know a lot of sexist men in indie music, so I’m a little surprised that this should be the case.
- Women in music seem to be more pigeonholed than men – when was the last time we saw a really ugly woman making popular music (not good, popular) and yet there are plenty of ugly men. Women’s roles within lyrical storytelling are often facile stereotypes as well, although this might be related to the fairytale/folk nature of a lot storytelling which happens in songs. Also, women musicians tend to be shoe-horned into specific niches much more commonly.
- Stereotypes are not without their truth, however. We play up to them ourselves as part of our own self-identification, to begin with. The example I used in the comments still holds: how many rich, powerful men do you see without a stunning other half? Equally, how many rich and powerful men forego that privilege? This is pretty much universally the case, and doesn’t reflect well on either sex, so we can’t pretend there’s nothing in it.
- And finally, a lot of the time causes in general frustrate me, irrespective of my relationship with their actual message. From the Reclaim the Night website, the first thing you read is this: “Congra[t]ulations women! Over 2000 marchers Reclaimed The Night against rape and male violence on Saturday 22nd November 2008.” What? What about female-on-female violence, which is becoming pretty serious nowadays? What about blokes who want to be able to go out on the town without the fear of having the shit kicked out of them? I do hear a lot of feminist rhetoric with this sort of ring to it, and I find it unnecessarily narrow. Think how much support from the male community you should (I assume and hope) be able to encourage if you just campaigned against violence on our streets of a night-time. I’m a big lad, and people tend not to threaten me, but it happens and I fucking hate it. I’d join that campaign, even if it was just aimed at women. I’d join the one they are waging as well, but I don’t like the language in which it is couched.
That’s about it, really. And as those of you who heard the mess of a podcast can testify, that was nothing much like how it sounded, which is why it’s gone. I often, and most regular readers will know this, express extreme versions of stupid opinions specifically for the purpose of showing how ridiculous those opinions are. If you balls it up, however and don’t put the humour across properly, which I did, then you are just left with the ugly side of it.
Now, I still think that a lot of people really over-reacted to this, and seemed determined to be horrified by what was pretty obviously just a clumsy, incoherent attempt to criticise sexism and equally determined to take the message in the opposite way to which it was intended. I’d have a lot more to say about that, however, if I hadn’t made such a cock-up of the post myself in the first place. I don’t think I really have a right to moan at other people when I got it so wrong myself, so I won’t.
So yes, it’s gone. This has taken so long now, that I won’t be able to get my Monday post up until a bit later, but I’m sure that will be fine.
I think this was a good decision.
Though I don’t really want to be on record as saying that music is not male-dominated in Edinburgh – I’ve always just thought there was a strong female presence amongst Edinburgh bands, and when thinking about this also realised there’s an unusually large number of women working on the promotion/business side of things in Edinburgh too.
stop it now Matthew…..esp with regards to your comments on Reclaim the night…..if i could i would take you to a rape crisis centre or maybe even a women’s aid refuge and let you speak to some of the people affected by rape and abuse.
female on female violence maybe increasing but it is nowhere near the amount of violence and abuse (reported and not reported) metered out to women via men.
your point about male on male violence is valid but somewhat misplaced in this context.
now lets carry on with what you’re good at…..talking about music and associated topics
love and good will
Tom
All I was saying, Tom, was that my immediate thoughts on that were ‘Oh, reclaim the night from violence, what a good ide… oh, just women then.’ and it seemed a bit needless.
Which is not supposed to be a criticism of their work, of course.
Funnily enough, this whole podcast came about almost entirely because I was so horrified by the whole Chris Brown/Rhianna episode and really amazed at how limited the condemnation was that I had seen in the media.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/feb/13/domestic-violence-women
Well yes, exactly. A lot of his peers seem to have been very quiet on the matter as well.
I think it’s time to move on.
Anyone heard that Starsailor album yet?
I’d be prepared to give it a fucking go at this point.
Dylan, really? Starsailor? I can only assume you are having a giggle?
Matthew, it was lovely to meet you at the weekend. Can you remind me of the chap on after meursault? I know I asked you later that night but truth be told I was a wee bit pissed by then and can’t really remember!
That was Player Piano, wasn’t it? Or Men Diamler, one of the two. I forget the precise running order. The running around and stamping his feet guy was Men Diamler.
Aye, thats the one, cheers! Sorry I haven’t said anything about all this.. truth be told I’ve just popped in and have no idea what the fucks really gone on! As I said lovely to meet you.
I wouldn’t worry about it, mate. It’s not been pretty.
Believe me, Dav, there’s nothing funny about Starsailor.
Actually, the Brown/Rihanna situ did garner quite a lot of publicity — perhaps just not so much in the UK where we clearly don’t give a flying fuck-a-doodle-doo about some jumped up chicken wobble warbler & her equally forgettable um, whatever he was… singer? Is he a singer?
The main issue was Rihanna’s supposed silence over the alleged assault (such as it was at that time) & so a lot of finger wagging happened in the midst of whispers of ‘cover up’, etc.
What does Rihanna’s boyfriend actually do?
Why does Rihanna spell her name like that?
Who let Starsailor release another album?
These are questions that need answering!
“What does Rihanna’s boyfriend actually do?”
Well, he hits Rihanna mostly, but he also likes to Skidoo and sell millions of records. He’d like to announce how sorry he is, and informs us that he is seeking counseling from his pastor. So that’s alright then.
“Why does Rihanna spell her name like that?”
She puts the “ha” in Rihanna
As for Starsailor… Who is Starsailor again?
Usher, to give him credit, actually spoke up and called Brown out, but he (Usher) was criticized by the “R&B community” for being too judgmental, so he (Usher) apologized. It was then I put my fucking foot through the TV screen.
Triple post mentalism!
That’s what we need!
He’s seeking counselling from his pasta?!
Thank you. We Yanks call it “hitting a triple” or “getting to third base.”
If there is one remotely positive thing from the Rihanna-Chris Brown episode, it’s come from the number of teenage boys I teach who have said, quite bluntly, that they think Brown isn’t a proper man for what he (is alleged) to have done (I say is alleged for legal reasons, not because I think he is innocent). If I have ever kids they will be brought up that: You should never hit a woman, never cross a picket line, and always buy your round in the pub (and I stick to the latter too, even though I am a boring teetotaler).
Rules I live by.
That’s the stuff. They should put that in the Bible. The Book of Ed, Chapter I, Verse I.
Perhaps the most dismaying aspect of the Rihanna/Chris episode is the number of women, including Whoppi Goldberg, who are questioning Rihanna’s role in the evenings activities. As if she encouraged him to do such things to her. I can say no more about how and why feminism is a necessary force in modern culture and a cause to be taken up by both men and women.
I should be more clear… Rihanna was allegedly reading a text message on his phone from a former/another lover when the beating began in his car.
Makes you wonder what she was wearing at the time, Tart – perhaps his defence will be she was asking for it, looking like that…
Like what? With her massive forehead and having the temerity to be slightly taller and more famous than him, you mean?
Cf+Bf – I believe Starsailor are the aural equivalent of munting. But let’s not travel that path again…
Like what? With her massive forehead and having the temerity to be slightly taller and more famous than him, you mean? – no, you know, the classic ‘rape’ defence: something flimsy & revealing/short. The usual RnB attire of the RnB popstress in demand on the pap circuit, one imagines.
I know mate, I was joking.
I am going to have to find some way of making that more obvious in general, I think.
Just keep referring to munting and use more emoticons. That should do the trick, Matthew. No one takes DC seriously.
No-one took me fucking seriously until the fucking weekend, Tarticles.
Yesterday I turned on Starsalior’s myspace page to see what the fuss was about and M.Chutney now wants to buy the album. Damn you all to hell! xoxox
Ouch, that hurts. If it makes you feel any better, my Mum owns an album – maybe two – by the Lighthouse Family.
Listen. I think violence. period. is wrong. men punching men. women punching women. men punching women. women punching men. it’s fucked and there’s no need for it. it’s all as bad as the next. gender doesn’t justify it. fuck sake.
chris brown should be shut in a room with starsailor’s “alcoholic” on repeat til he realises that he’s a cock.
But I thought you said you opposed violence?
Of course, Heat magazine etc now proclaim that Riwossit is going to take him back. This apparently shows what a big and caring heart she has, not that she is either suffering from battered wife syndrome, a distinctly unfortunate state of affairs to coo over in a glossy magazine or alternatively,cynically milking it for every line of press her handlers can get.
As for him, the “oops, my bad. I’m going to rehab/counselling/church” defence is wearing thin. Life isn’t a fucking etchasketch. He should be dropped by his record company and spend some time upstate not daring to pick up the soap.
you’re so topical toad you should watch the news on more 4 from 8pm
HA! What a wonderful subject to introduce myself with. As it happens, I (female, by the way) strongly agree with your point that the woman versus man violence thing is a bit absurd. Though I wouldn’t necessarily want it done away with as I’m sure projects like Reclaim The Night do benefit victims of violence (however one sided) none-the-less.
I consider myself a feminist, Mr. Toad and thus far, I’ve not heard (or read) one thing that you’ve said which I take to be offensive. I comprehend the fact that you, on occasion, try to get a rouse of people. *shock/horror* You do so quite well and in a highly entertaining way I might add. That and I do enjoy hearing Mrs. Toad, shall I say, “dispute your way of thinking”.
As for we feminists… whether it be freedom from oppression, absolute matriarchy or just general equality that we seek, we HAVE to recognize if not respect strong men who voice their opinions on the matter. That said – I am very glad you did. I wish you didn’t feel sick about it nor the need to apologize. Educated, passionate and articulate people are what make this “life” thing bearable. I for one – am glad you’re in it.
What ever happened to the Violent Femmes by the way? How about that for a fitting satirical mockery? A big FU! to the enemy. It’s earned, trust me.
Tender, thanks very much, I do appreciate it. Honestly, though, if you’d heard the podcast you might have felt a little differently. It was a bit of a wreck. Honestly, if I’d just said what I wrote in this new post then I wouldn’t feel any need to apologise at all. I wouldn’t say none of it was open to debate, but I wouldn’t be apologising. Mrs. Toad knows me quite well, too. I don’t apologise much, so if I am now then you can be sure it is definitely needed.
Thanks though.
(C&B I am so glad to see the back of those man boobs. They were a little flinch of unpleasantness every time I clapped eyes on them.)
Matthew, I think you’ve let people get to you a little too much on this one to be honest. I didn’t hear the podcast, but I read the backlash. You have apologised. You have acknowledged you’re not proud of everything you said. But a number of intelligent, educated women including a couple of self confessed feminists have not taken offence at what was said. To be honest, the only thing that offended me about everything I read was somebody comparing it to racism. But I won’t go there! I also feel, and always have, that if a friend or somebody you know offends you, or does something you feel is out of order – have a quiet word in private, its far more dignified. You made a mistake (apparently), but you’ve rectified the situation. In addition, everyone who knows you should know you are prone to the dramatic! Perhaps your rant was ill advised given how many people read/use your page, but the phrase storm in a tea cup springs to mind. I personally take everything you say with a pinch of salt and wouldn’t read this page if I didn’t. I also agree with Tender on the educated, articulate and passionate comment. Sometimes that creates conflict or confrontation.
And thats my 2 cents worth. For what its worth.
Mostly you’re just a grumpy twat Euan, but sometimes I just want to give you a great big hug.
Again.
(Unless that makes you nervous, after Saturday night.)
I’m not nervous about the hug. Its the playing with my hair always that freaks me out!
It’s like you think I’m some sort of mongrel.
oooh now I’m jealous!
jealous fo what?
matthew thinking that i am some sort of canine?
Matthew, for fuck’s sake, write a new post!
is there nothing witty for you to say on this one D?
all that hair stroking…. and here I thought I was special
yes, post please! or perhaps we should write one on “Dancing in The Moonlight” ?
Dancing in the fucking fdmjrk fknbwbgs… grrr!
Tart, he’s talking about Saturday night. It was a splendid night out, but I drank far, far too much and was in a really weird mood. The consequences: I think I hugged absolutely everyone about a million times. It was quite weird.
Sometimes I say to myself, “Oh to be in Scotland…” xoxoxo
How many days till the missus returns?
A few days. But she did threaten to ‘fuck a few people one in the puss’ for me, which I found endearing.
(Translation for Americans/Tarts: thump someone in the mouth.)
For the record I thought the ‘cast was great…
Not the best, for sure, and certainly rambling, unfocused and somewhat slurry, but nevertheless very entertaining.
chris brown should be shut in a room with starsailor’s “alcoholic” on repeat til he realises that he’s a cock
I’m fucking hammered – amazing gig (Casiokids – never thought much o them ’til I sawed them do deir ting & fuck me they was special) – I’m reading the above & my drunk crosseyedness read
til he releases his cock
Now I’m not even going to go into how many permeations of what I thought was supposedly going on in that room, but the one that struck me as justice was him mashing his tattie to the strains of Alcoholic.
I bet the cunt does like Starsailor as well – so’s he has something to talk about when he’s interviewed by Loaded.
I’m not even sure that makes sense. ‘Night, bubba.
I’m hoping this podcast appears on the black market (no racism intended) shortly as I failed to listen to it when it was first posted and feel like I’ve missed out on something.
p.s. Men Diamler was superb!
I missed the podcast and the discussion but will throw in, for the sake of it, a point on domestic violence against men – there is no doubt, can be no doubt, that it happens. But I worked in family law for about eight years, in solicitors’ offices, and I dealt with a lot of domestic violence cases and injunction applications, probably one every other day for eight years, and I dealt with a lot of people at the end of relationships who were on occasion prepared to say anything about their partner just to let it out, including horrible (and often ridiculous) allegations of child abuse and one woman who arranged things so that her ex opened the door to find the undertakers had arrived to collect his body, and not once, not once, in eight years of this, did I have to deal with an allegation of woman on man domestic violence. Not once, not even mentioned as something in the background. I don’t believe it’s a major issue, I think it’s a very marginal thing indeed – terrible where it happens, but not a major issue. Whereas according to the news last night domestic violence is the leading cause of death in women aged 17 to 44 (I think, somthing like those ages), which is truly fucking shocking.
I really, really wasn’t trying to make a comment about the seriousness or otherwise of domestic violence. In fact, I haven’t mentioned domestic violence at all.
All I was saying in relation to violence on the streets at night is that it is the violence that is the problem and that if people treat ‘men’ – as some nebulous, homogenised mass – like they are the problem then it is very similar to saying that the problem with terrorism is Muslims, as opposed to the act of committing terrorist crimes itself.
I am not, and I cannot state this strongly enough, downplaying either the seriousness of domestic or sexual violence, nor did I even mention it in the podcast.
This is one of the fundamental reasons I can find myself incredibly frustrated with a lot of people who define themselves as feminists: it’s because it is not unusual for any sort of less-than-positive remark to lead to you being asked to defend all sorts of opinions you just don’t have.
If anyone intends to respond to that comment, please take note of the ‘a lot of’ in that last paragraph before saying anything stupid.
I wasn’t having a go at you, Matthew, just joining in with something I’d been thinking about after seeing stuff on the news about it the other night. I know that I’m still emerging from a politics that was nurtured through the 1980s left which told you that men were just wrong and to blame (I don’t think this is an exaggeration of how it was to be involved then, I think the sometimes execrable John O’Farrell is good on this in his book ‘things can only get better’) and I think you’re right – although, a bit like arguments about profiling ‘terrorist suspects’ (which is a loaded phrase to start with) its very easy for people responding to the argument to dive for the extremes.
Ach ignore me, I’m just being over-sensitive after the weekend. And I did pick up a fair bit of that myself in the eighties, although I’d imagine I was a little younger than you at the time so it was probably a little more vague. No ‘fence like.
In terms of data-mining as a tool for profiling terror suspects though, Bad Science has a really interesting discussion on this going on at the moment. Really worth reading the comments there are they a very sensibly put, whether or not you agree, and seem to cover most sides of the argument.
I’ve read and commented on that! It is good, I struggle to keep up with the technical stuff that his commenters write who tend not be as concerned with a generalist audience as he is, but it’s all interesting stuff. I can’t read novels at the moment, just pop science stuff like him and Dawkins and all.
That stat about deaths due to domestic violence is truly fucking shocking, incidentally. Not that I wish to ruin my image as a chauvinist troglodyte of course.
Pop science has been one of my favourite things to read for some time. You have to try and take in a fair bit of it though, to avoid the potential of being carried away by someone’s pet theory, which may be less solidly reasonable than they think.
GAH!!! Someone link me that false statistic. Let’s just squash it where it stands… I didn’t think you fair folk over the water had FOX news. ROFL!!!
P.S. Heard the sexcast today… fucking loved it Matthew. GREAT music first of all. (Michelle Shocked, how could I forget?) Something about the “mighty” persona just resonates with me… if you have the balls (how’s that for discrimination btw?) to say STFU! to the masses simply because you can… you’re alright.
***going to start some shit in a DV chat room about “stag” and “hen” nights. \m/
Yeah, I don’t seem to be able to delete the fucker off iTunes, so I guess it’s not going away entirely.
Yeah you’re right I mean the reclaim the night march totally ignored all the injustice that dolphins are suffering too.
Why didn’t they mention that – and cows, cows get killed every day, I don’t see these women marching for cows… How selfish of them, their language on the website totally didn’t mention any animal cruelty.
Me and paupus pals get caught in nets every week and they did not mention us in their website.
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/
No, but they didn’t mention dogs in a negative way did they, and they kill women.
Look, I am not slagging off their work or their cause, I am saying that this particular choice of words is not great and is a fairly common habit.
By saying that women can’t congratulate each other, or point out that men do violence, you completely undermine their whole cause.
I know it’s difficult being a bloke, and someone says ‘hey blokes do violence’, the temptation is to go ‘but I’m a bloke, and I don’t do violence’ and feel all hurt and offended.
There is a reason for writing ‘men’s violence’, which is that by saying just ‘violence against women’, it makes the person who does the violence invisible. Most of the time this person is a man. Saying ‘mens violence’ points out that men need to not be violent, rather than putting it onto women to protect themselves.
It is not to say ‘no other forms of violence go on’, but then when plane stupid do environment actions they aren’t saying ‘there’s no racism’, or even ‘planes are the only bad thing that harms the environment’.
eh?
‘It is not to say ‘no other forms of violence go on’, but then when plane stupid do environment actions they aren’t saying ‘there’s no racism’, or even ‘planes are the only bad thing that harms the environment’.”
I don’t mean ‘eh’, n a bad way.
more just a general “eh?’ kind of thing.
dig?
“Most of the time this person is a man.”
In fact, almost always it’s a man – I’m not disputing that for a second, I’m just talking about language.
A less controversial analogy might be this:
The Bush administration trampled all over the Constitution of the United States while they were in power, in many, many ways. But there are different ways to criticise this.
1/ Republicans are showing that they have no respect for the constitution.
2/ This Republican administration is trampling the constitution.
3/ George Bush’s government has disregarded the Constitution in a number of ways.
4/ Since 2000 here is a list of direct violations of the Constitution by the government which have taken place.
Whilst there’s only so much you can sugar-coat anything and only so much you should have to, including the word Republican in any of these arguments is tactically unwise because, despite the fact that people doing it are all Republicans, as soon as you start doing that you lose an awful lot of other Republicans, who would be on your side, just by activating basic partisan triggers.
And that Reclaim the Night one was a teeny, tiny example and hardly worth quibbling about, it was just the first example which was immediately before me.
It’s just a point about language, as I said, not in any way a criticism of the charity or the issue.
re eh?
I just meant like, Reclaim the night campaign about mens violence against women. Whenever feminists do that it is garuanteed that someone will say ‘what about womens violence/men getting beaten up etc’, as if RTN denies the existence of other forms of violence by highlighting one major cause.
I was badly making the point that, other campaigns such as plane stupid campaign about one issue – but nobody thinks that they are denying the existence of other social problems by focusing on 1 issue.
I take a weeks holiday and miss all the fun. Damn, right thats me off to listen to the Starsailer album.
Is it ok to stay friends with someone who really likes Starsailer? thought not.
It is okay to stamp on their penis though. They’ll thank you later, honestly.