But I think “best bet” sums it up.

Getting signed up by a big label is no longer the “be all and end all” for a band. There are other ways of getting yourself out there

I think the alternatives are much more feasible these days, but that’s presumably still the best bet for a band.

The whole industry is in a state of flux, and there are no easy answers or ‘safe bets’ – so i think people are just trying things out for themselves and finding their own route.

Again with FOUND – I read a funny interview them about the exposure and international media interest in the Cybraphon project. They had spent thousands of pounds getting to the prestigious SXSW festival in order to “make it” in America, but in the end all they had to do was build an emotional robot.

A reluctance to engage with the music industry in the traditional sense isn’t necessarily an indication of lack of ambition. I think Rob hit it on the head – it’s trying to balance success with progressing musically, and still getting enjoyment out of what you were doing, rather than turning it into a ‘job’.

It’s an extreme example, but I think too many bands tend to follow the ‘Snow Patrol’ career trajectory.

Also, there are a lot of people (not just in music) who set very modest goals because of a fear of failure, and then try and justify those goals as some sort of more noble enterprise, when actually they are no more than an embodiment of their own lack of confidence.

Having said that, though, Jim has made a few sweeping statements which have got Mr. Bear’s goat and to a degree get mine as well: the idea that success and ambition are the same thing for all people is simply wrong, and to dismiss people who are going about things differently, or having different levels of success as being ‘unambitious’ is just not accurate.

I am very ambitious for Song, by Toad, for example, but that ambition is probably more embodied in what I want it to be and how I want to go about doing things than specific goals about fame, readership influence or reach. As you said, wider success might be a nice incidental, but it is absolutely not the focus of any of my daily activities. I genuinely do not want to challenge the NME or Q or Tops of the Pops or even Pitchfork or Drowned in Sound; that’s not what I’ve ever enjoyed as a reader/music fan myself, and consequently why would I ever measure myself against it now?

Basically, if it doesn’t happen for you then you need to be getting enough out of it for its own sake that a lack of wider success doesn’t ruin the love you have for your band/site/artwork/whatever it is you’re doing. Surely if you think it’s good, that’s enough – that’s precisely why you’re doing it the way you are in the first place: because it’s what you think is great. Anyone else agreeing with you is just a bonus.

As Neil said, I guess you’re a wee bit wide of the mark with that one. As I said in the article, one of the things I like the most about what’s happening DIY-wise is that new folks are getting involved/playing/promoting all the time. It’s exciting, and it keeps things fresh.

I don’t necessarily think that a reluctance to immerse yourself in “the industry” reflects a lack of ambition, or desire to be heard. I think most (not all!) musicians would be lying if they wanted to make music that no-one else would hear It’s just a balancing act between having success (relative to what you want), progressing musically and having a good time, whilst at the same time not comprimising your music by having creative/money/future planning decisions overly dictated to you.

I guess another facet to Jim’s: “It bothers me that there is so much good music happening in Edinburgh, yet there is no desire to spread it out of Edinburgh” is part of a universal problem facing everyone – money woes. Unless you have a wealthy backer (and I know people are rejecting this for the fear of long-term debt), then the few hundred pounds upwards startup to send yourself off on tour/press records/whatever, is maybe more realistically spent elsewhere. But as Mr. Bear said, where folk have spread their music further afield (like Withered Hand, or eagleowl’s sold out London tour show) it’s been a success.

There’s more to it for them than just being in a successful band, basically.

(Apologies to FOUND if I am totally misrepresenting their views, of course. I am guessing a bit here.)