Toadcast #86 – The Deathcast
DO NOT WORRY! This is not a podcast stuffed full of tedious moralising and empty pontificating and generally depressing garbage about a subject far too weighty and philosophical for this sort of half-arsed internet enterprise. In fact, towards the end it really gets quite chipper.
Basically, there are so many extraordinarily good murder ballads that that particular aspect could so easily have entirely overtaken a podcast ostensibly about prison, crime and criminal justice.
This week, however, I have still managed to marginalise the role of the murder ballad, because the concept of death incorporates so many disparate emotions and aspects that simply doing a whole podcast about murderous folk tales and their musical counterparts seemed unnecessarily narrow. So you get this. Which starts out a little heavy but becomes positively gleeful by the end, I promise you.
Toadcast #86 – The Deathcast
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01. Willard Grant Conspiracy – Painter Blue (03.01)
02. Samamidon – O Death (12.33)
03. Eels – Going to Your Funeral (22.31)
04. Melanie Rivaud & Strange Weather – The Fall of Troy (Tom Waits Cover) (25.05)
05. Bob Frank & John Murry – Jesse Washington 1916 (31.53)
06. Bruce Springsteen – Dead Man Walking (37.02)
07. Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds – Up Jumped the Devil (41.15)
08. The Men They Couldn’t Hang – The Green Fields of France (48.26)
09. Elvis Costello & the Attractions – Tramp the Dirt Down (57.02)
10. Chumbawamba – Passenger List for Doomed Flight 1471 (66.35)
I love death! So many great bleak songs to choose from. Ever since you first posted that Jesse Washington, 1916 tune, it’s given me the shivers.
The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll and The Ballad of Hollis Brown would go nicely here, eh?
Yup. There are so many, I could have done this podcast ten times over.
So-called ‘snuff’ movies are movies/films that have an actual death (read: murder) in them – there’s no specific genre tagged on to it (like porn) or gender of the person involved in the dying part.
The late ’80s & early ’90s saw a revival of interest in the ‘snuff’ so-called phenomenon, which came about due to the revival of interest in all the schlock Horror movies that had just been re-classified following the video boom of the early ’80s.
For a period, while the UK grew frantically delirious about the availability of movies on VHS, somewhere someone forgot to classify a lot of really dodgy slasher/horror/gore movies (made at the tail end of the ’70s & early ’80s) as they were put onto video & onto the booming rental store shelves to keep up with the demand from the public. So, things like I Spit On Your Grave were bouncing about without an X or 18 cert for years. These became the basis of the so-called ‘video nasty’ purge some years later.
When the re-classification happened a ton of those video nasties were, this time, purposefully ignored (due to a mixture of personal taste & political motive on the BBFC) &, as they were now without classification, became ‘illegal’ by proxy (you weren’t allowed to rent out unclassfied videos any longer). Video rental stores were then legally obliged to remove them from their shelves — unsurprisingly most sold the videos off to punters.
It was a fairly clever way of removing an embarrassing & increasingly public spotlight on those movies that were begining to gain notice in the mainstream press due to apparent copycat actions by teenage kids across the world.
In amongst all this hoo-hah the more extreme unclassified video ‘horror’ etc. films started being bootlegged & traded/sold & very quickly the demand for more tipped from underground to mainstream. Within this extreme emerged the alleged ‘snuff’ genre – mainly rumour-based bragging on the part of the traders & ‘fans’. Obviously, the press pounced on these rumours & brought it to the attention of people who probably would never know about such nonsense in the first place.
It was, to put in perspective, akin to the “was that acting or did they really fuck in that scene” chatter that bounced about certain films throughout the period (think 9½ Weeks, etc.). But, generally conducted by grizzled comic geek potheads, who read magazines & periodicals like ‘O’ & ‘Skin’ & ‘Body Art’, & wore Dario Argento T-Shirts & so on.
Whether actual underground movies, with scripts, plots, (minimal) production, (minimal) money, etc. actually ever had a proper actual death in them (i.e. the whole cast & crew were complicit in the action of killing another cast member) is debatable. There could have well been, but if there were they were far & few between to say the least.
I’m only mentioning this, in this much detail, sorry, because I worked in Forbidden Planet comic store in Cardiff with a brilliant guy, who edited a horror movie magazine called ‘Bloody Hell’ back in the early ’90s, & if he didn’t know about it then it more or less didn’t exist.
He was a walking encyclopedia of horror knowledge, regardless of medium, & he would stake his life on it that the snuff genre simply didn’t exist; it was purely a marketing ploy to get people to watch sub-standard gore movies on the understanding someone was actually torn apart by ‘actors’ dressed as zombies, or whatever. Or, the negative press being used to create an audience.
The nearest I ever got to seeing anything vaguely ‘snuff’ like was some US politician, in the late ’80s or early ’90s, at a press conference resigning over something, pulling a hand cannon out of a paper bag, sticking it in his mouth & blowing the back end of his skull off in front of TV cameras, press & whomever else was there. Rather grim, indeed.
Nice ‘cast, by the way.
Oh so DC worked at a comic book/movie rental store and sat on his ass throughout his 20 something days and has been keeping this detailed knowledge of the snuff movie industry bottled up inside him for 15 years now! At last, you’ve provided him space to release it. Well done, Matthew, well done!
Now what was that about Mickey Rourke fucking?
No Tart. Years 18 – 21 was when I was sat on my arse acquiring an alterknowledge of ‘culture’ via geeks, fanboys, fetishists, hardcore movie nerds & left-field musicians.
We didn’t rent, we sold movies – & not the above sort, either — at least not the so-called ‘banned’ stuff. We just swapped that shit under the counter. “Counter” culture is what we liked to call it.
My GF at the time lived near two pokey little rental stores & we used to have themed weekends where we would hire 10 videos. Speaking of Rourke we’d watch his entire back catalogue over the course of a day – all the good & the bad stuff.
When the whole re-classification thing came in we more or less bought everything the two stores had for, like, 50p a movie & had a huge collection of trash & schlock movies.
We were also massively into John Waters & owned a scratch & sniff copy of Polyester
I saw Bob Frank and John Murray support Richmond Fontaine at the Bongo Club. It was simply fucking brilliant.
oh apologies… i was confusing your youth with mine again there, oops.
that polyester was a damn good flick, wasn’t it? i wore mine out somewhere around 1993, damn.
and when you listed “Dead Man Walking” i thought it would be that this one was a cover. But no, it’s a Springsteen that I’ve not heard before, hmmm! Thanks hun, xoxo
Hasn’t that Springsteen track been rather successfully covered recently?
Dunno, quite possibly. By whom?
Euan, you lucky, lucky bastard. When was this and why wasn’t I there?
Sufjan Stevens’ “John Wayne Gacy Jr.” is too creepy to not be on any mix of songs regarding/involving death, however cliche it may be. gets me every time. but it’s true, you can make so many of these and find some truly great ballads. even if taboo death seems to be so easily (yet thoughtfully) written about. intriguing stuff – you learn a lot about the artist from their words about death
hang on….chumbawumba….why?….why would you do that?…..chumba-fucking-wumba?….
Listen to the song, mate, it’s genius.
just hijacking this thread to say that i have just listened to the latest grant campbell release (expecting great things – april 2009) and it is, in my humble opinion, quite simply, superb!! – also just purchased the frank&murray release – sounds fascinating – looking forward to listening – thanks for that recommendation
I concur with Mr. Bear.
Seriously, Chumba-fucking-wumba?
What’s the matter with you?
Have either of you two cunts actually listened to that song? DO SO, it’s fucking hilarious.
They get knocked down, but Toad bigs them up again.
Can we not have some Wang Chung to go with?
How precisely does one Wang Chung?
One sticks one’s head up one’s arse and proceeds from there.
I actually started listening to it – to try and ascertain why on earth you would include Chumba-fucking-wumba on a podcast. But then I realised that I was actively listening to Chumba-fucking-wumba. So I stopped.
It’s probably best we don’t discuss Chumba-fucking-wumba anymore.
I promise you it’s brilliant. The name of the song… the cheery ‘bye-bye’s? It’s great.
Oi! Where’s the funk?!
Honest to gawd, I’ve been informed by Colin that wanging is that thing that guitarists do when they thump their guitar to produce a sound against the sound waves coming off the amp. So the “everybody wang chung tonight” phrase wasn’t nonsense it was referring to going out and whacking your guitar into musical oblivion and producing gorgeous feedback which makes the likes of me swoon and melt into puddles at your feet.
See how I’ve worked both wang and thump into this? brilliant, I am
And Camps, you know damn well that Oi’s an entirely different matter; don’t go confusing the issue!
Has this thread got a planned route or is it tumbling about like a teenage boy trying to find the clitoris buried in the crease of high waist panties worn by a cross-legged tease?
DC, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard such a specific simile. Suspiciously specific if you ask me.
hey dc have you ever, or known anyone, who has actually seen a snuff film – of the kind where someone sets up a camera and kills someone specifically to film it (not the kind you mentioned where a death just happens to be caught on film)? i met a guy who claimed he saw one. but i didn’t believe him. im skeptical about their existence. i remember reading a book by an ex fbi guy who worked on very disturbing cases (weird satanic killings) and he claimed they didn’t exist. just wondering on this sunday evening.
nevermind dc, it’s too creepy to talk/write about. i just hope the fbi was right.
Well, at least I tried to talk music. But if all you want is sex and death, go at it! It’s been a really long weekend, hasn’t it? xoxo
I didn’t see much daylight this weekend. I need more vitamin D in my system to deal with threads like this.
I think I need more fucking LSD in my system for this sort of shit.
I did enjoy your final song, I have to admit!
Bart will never speak to you again, Tart!
my legs are sore
You love cake
i do love cake……
We all love cake.
Don’t we?
The Bowery’s cupcakes are lovely….
They are indeed.
Cake is good, but pie is gooder.
Chutters loves cake so much, he wanted everyone in the Bowery to know.
cheers Dylan, i’m trying to forget my finer moments of saturday night!
Yes yes, but where is the funk?
i saw the funk walking home on saturday night, it looked well and asked after you C&B
The funk was in the cake. Shish.
cake > pie.
Funky pie
OMG – my chunky just got funky.
Matthew, if that’s the case – I would head straight to to A&E.
Matthew, I believe it was a couple of years ago. And yes, it was AMAZING. If you like murder ballads I cannot recommend Bob Frank and John Murray highly enough. And wicked guys as well. I had a tenner in my pocket but wanted a cd and a t-shirt. They had 2 cds for sale at a fiver each and t-shirts for a tenner. They gave me all 3 for my tenner. I think they were completely shit faced but it was a good moment. And then Richmond Fontaine were absolutely amazing as well to top the night off nicely. One of my favourite gigs. I have no idea where you were though.
Not there is the obvious answer, and what a fool. That sounds amazing. I assume one CD was their album, but what was the other?
BOB FRANK AND JOHN MURRY
The Gunplay Ep
This is an ultra rare limited edition recording of the Waylon Jenning’s album – Dreaming My Dreams done the whole way through and features John Murry as well as Stephie Finch and Tim Mooney.
And it’s brilliant.
I believe they may have a new album out as well. I think they might be love songs. The mind boggles!
Creepy-as-fuck love songs I assume! Or at least, if they weren’t already they probably will be by the time those two have finished with them.
Cf&Bf — I’ve watched Porkies, I know what them kids are like.
Chris — No, as I said above, the closest I ever got to anything of that nature was that suicide I mentioned above. I know of no one actually watching one. I don’t believe they exist(ed), either. Like I said, just a marketing plot tacked onto the video nasty era.
Camps, I got yer funk right here babes.
Everyone knows pie is best and that cake conversation we had on the phone saturday night, Tom, was just pure bullshit. The recording is funny as hell and going on the blog, but bullshit nonetheless
C&B – I forgot the funk, so will have to make do with next weekend, sorry.